Thanks to all (@carnage0, @Daniel33, and @Seakow) for continuing to work on this. It’s been a tricky ride.
I’ve single-flavour-tested every tobacco concentrate I own over the past week or so. Exasperating work, with no positive results at all. Brief, summarised notes from my notebook:
INW Virginia (TA)
Too bitter and dark and too cig-like to be the primary note in Django
INW Garuda (TA)
Rich tobacco leaves w/ full mouthfeel, but again, too cig-alike to be used in Django
FA Cuban Supreme
Leafy, somewhat thin-tasting (not really reminiscent of Django)
FA Desert Ship
Off-tasting, tobacco-ish flavour w/ soy sauce + jalapenos? (not Django!)
Hangsen Flue Cured
"Brown-tasting" - way too dark & bitter to be the primary note in Django. Ruined so many mixes!
INW Vanilla for Pipe
VERY HONEY TASTING. Way too sweet to be in Django. Too cloying. Honey. Not vanilla.
I didn’t even bother single flavour testing FA Burley, as it found its way into one of the older clone attempts (v17 or so) and I concluded that it should die in a fire.
I basically gave up on ever finding the main tobacco note. I even sent 13th floor a desperate message on instagram pleading for them to disclose (even cryptically) at least the manufacturer of the “flue cured tobacco” used in Django.
Nothing.
So I continued my research, and I think I may have found the answer (more on that later, and don’t get your hopes up - it’s still a wing and a prayer…)
In the meantime, I revisited my most recent versions a few days ago, and after finding that versions 20-27 were ALL completely ruined by the involvement of any of the tobacco concentrates I used, I began a slightly different approach to development.
I decided to take what we’ve already learnt, and what I’ve learnt elsewhere in other projects, and apply it, to simply building the most delicious, balanced, “vanilla milk and caramel” recipe ever created. My thinking was that at least then we’ll have a good foundation from which to build, and something truly delicious to vape on while we collectively spend every penny we own on every tobacco concentrate under the sun (none of which we’ll ever use again, after realising it’s not “the one”) in our attempt at finding the stupid f**king one that’s used in Django.
Vanilla Milk & Caramel
So we know Django has Butterscotch. I’d say more butterscotch than caramel. (Sniff the bottle and tell me it ain’t so.) It’s also got a very distinct, forward and full-bodied vanilla thing going on. No “light milk”. That’s custard right there. CAP Vanilla Custard. Nothing else I own fulfils that profile. Hell, 13th floor even clued us in on the custard element via twitter (I know that’s a stretch, but stay with me.) It’s also very well-rounded. A balanced profile that doesn’t really get old, however much you vape it.
This was something that was distinctly lacking in almost every version I’d created. There was always a hollow-ness, or a thin mouthfeel, or too much sweetness, cloyingness, or not enough richness etc.
And from all the other cream / milkshake / custard recipes I’ve tried and created, I’ve established that a balanced “vanilla milk” recipe isn’t really possible with just 3-4 concentrates. It really needs some extra help from certain elements to round it all out. So that’s what I’ve done here.
Django v28 (base minus tobacco)
| % | Vendor | Flavor | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
2 |
(FLV) | Butterscotch | ||
2 |
(FW) | Butterscotch Ripple | ||
0.5 |
(FA) | Carmel (caramel) | ||
0.5 |
(FA) | Cream Fresh | ||
0.5 |
(FA) | Marshmallow | ||
0.5 |
(FA) | Meringue | ||
1.5 |
(CAP) | Vanilla Bean Ice Cream | ||
1.25 |
(CAP) | Vanilla Custard | ||
1.25 |
(FA) | Vienna Cream |
Breaking it down…
FLV Butterscotch / FW Butterscotch Ripple / FA Caramel
This is the “caramel” in our “vanilla milk and caramel”. The top note. It’s more butterscotch than caramel, as is Django. I remember an old version where I upped FA Caramel to 1%, and I think this should be avoided. The reason being that there’s at least anecdotal evidence out there (I’ve also experienced it) that FA Caramel can mute flavours over time. So we stick with 0.5% for that. (I doubt 13th Floor would want something muting the flavours in Django over time, but this is just my intuition.) The other elements can be played around with a bit (perhaps upping Butterscotch Ripple to 3%, or swapping out FLV Butterscotch for FA Butterscotch, but I’m really pretty happy with them exactly where they are. (Note: the “rich” butterscotch flavour present in Django doesn’t match my experience of FA Butterscotch, but I may not have steeped it long enough to be sure.)
FA Cream Fresh / FA Marshmallow / FA Meringue / FA Vienna Cream
This is the “milk”. The middle note. We don’t want any sour notes from Cream Fresh, so we keep it at 0.5%. Marshmallow is at the same percentage to slightly sweeten, and add a nice, rich mouthfeel, and thicken up the vapour, without adding any overt marshmallow notes. Meringue at 0.5% ups the creaminess of the milk, whilst adding in a little more sweetness. And Vienna Cream provides the base here, adding sweetened milk notes when used around 1.25%, whilst also holding everything together, and preventing the next cream base from becoming too cloying and separated…
CAP Vanilla Bean Ice Cream / CAP Vanilla Custard
This is the “vanilla”. It’s the base; the foundation of the entire recipe. These low percentages prevent it from falling into full-on ice cream or custard. This recipe really needs these two elements. Without it, we’ve just got a slightly thin, sweet milk sitting on air. VBIC and VC together add a rich under-belly to everything, rounding out the profile, and providing a full body of vanilla cream for everything to sit on. (Note: You could sub in TFA VBIC here at the same percentage; I’ve got one version steeping with it, as I ran out of CAP VBIC, and I think it’ll still work. Though I think I prefer CAP VBIC for this, as the TFA version can add in too many potential “off” notes and perhaps slightly muddy the profile with the complexities it brings to the table.) CAP VBIC is rich, creamy, and vanilla-forward, which just works perfectly here.
I know @carnage0 has issues with diacetyl. (Sorry bro!) So for him, and anyone else who has similar concerns, I’d suggest subbing in Vanilla Bean Gelato 1% and French Vanilla 0.5% in place of VBIC, and use CAP VC V2 in place of V1, though bear in mind the latter will obviously significantly increase optimal steep time (3-4 weeks min.) to get it out of the butyric acid / smells like dirty socks stage. I’ve not tried either of those subs, so YMMV.
That said, I’d seriously recommend that even those who have issues with DA/AP just make an exception this time and try this recipe exactly as it is. Think of it as a special treat for your tastebuds, and only vape it on a new moon or something.
Tobacco what?!
So now we’ve got a ridiculously amazing base from which to work. It’s very, very close to the base in Django. It might not be identical, but at this point, I don’t really care, as it’s f**king delicious. With that done, we can move on to the odious task of locating the stupid tobacco concentrate. Like I said above, it’s not any of the concentrates I own. I also don’t think it’s RY4 (of any brand), though I’m definitely interested in @Daniel33’s results with FA RY4, and am very appreciative of @carnage0’s notes on avoiding INW RY4.
During one of many drawn out, seemingly random but obviously carefully-calculated searches on the google-machine, I came across some flavour notes for FA Shade. Listen to this…
“the best way I can describe Shade is a lite, grassy, leafy & somewhat earthy tobacco essence with a mellow almost vanilla like sweetness to it, that’s probably why it works so well with vanilla & RY4 type recipes. I have one RY4 recipe that everyone who has tried it says its delicious. I use 3-5% Shade (usually 3% but some days I want more tobacco essence, steeping is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for tobacco mixes, I can’t stress that enough, I can almost guarantee that the people who say 10% isn’t strong enough either didn’t steep or didn’t steep long enough, or they had vapers tongue, you need a minimum of 3 days steep time but 10 days to 2-3wks is best, the flavors completely change & POP out & richen with proper steeping)”
Thanks for the notes @Pro_Vapes!
and: “It is a mellow, sweet tobacco - light and sort-of ‘bright’. The sweetness is more of a light sugar (as opposed to dark or caramel). It’s difficult to describe. It pairs very well with creams, vanillas, honey, banana, butterscotch, etc. I usually use it in the 1%-3% range.”
Thanks for the notes @manthe!
Wing and a prayer, like I said. But the description alone has me excited. And there’s many more reviews on vendor sites which match those descriptions, along with a few that completely contradict it, but I’m gonna ignore the bad reviews because I feel like it. I’m very wary of FA tobacco concentrates, having had traumatic experiences with them in the past. But I’m definitely gonna be adding this to my next order. If any of you have had any experience with it at all, let me know asap. Otherwise, I’ll be ordering it within a few days…
And when it arrives, I plan on adding somewhere around 2-3% to this beautiful vanilla milk and caramel base, and then hiding it in a cupboard for 3 weeks with my fingers crossed. What’s the worst that could happen?! 
Not even a cryptic clue? Here’s where I’ve got so far: