Hello folks,Is there a safe alternative to Capella cake batter.Found a recipe that i want to try but one of the main ingredients is cake batter from Capella.I’ve read where this flavor contains acetoin and that it’s not safe to vape.I asked this same question on a different forum and was told to buy v2 of this flavor but i couldn’t find it anywhere online.So i called yesterday and spoke with a very nice lady with the Capella customer service department.She told me that the version 2 of cake batter in being developed now but is not ready for release yet.She had no idea what could be substituted in its place.If any of you folks know of a flavor that can be used in its place that wouldn’t totally change the end result i would greatly appreciate the help.Every time i have posted a question on this forum before you folks have really stepped up with some great information and i really do appreciate it.Thank you very much, for all of the help and support,Karey
It appears to me you have been misinformed about Acetoin. Acetoin is being used to substitute for Diactyl which is considered unsafe for vaping. The only other alternative to Acetoin or Diactyl is Butyric Acid which is not safe to vape. Truth be told if you consider Acetoin unsafe to vape then you better start vaping flavorless ejuice because it is in many, many flavors to some degree. Ingredients to actually worry about might be Sucralose, Butyric Acid, Diactyl, and possibly Fruitose which they are now saying may form carcinagens at vaping temperatures…
So what exactly does the favoring we use contain?
While I am with @ringling on this one and don’t have a problem with acetoin, the answer to your question is sort of. There are alternate cake batters but none of them are going to be just like Capella’s. It looks like TPA, Lorann, and Delosi all make a cake batter without warnings (doesn’t mean it doesn’t have acetoin, it just means we don’t know yet). You could always give one of those a try and see if it works for you. If not, you may have to go in a different direction and attempt to make your own.
Thank you for the response,and to be honest with you i am not a scientist or chemist and i have no clue as to the dangers of vaping an e-liquid containing acetoin.I was just going by the footnote when i see capella cake batter and capella vanilla bean ice cream flavoring in a recipe on this website and a few others as well.I just recently started trying to make my own e-liquid and i am just trying to be safe .I suppose i could be vaping acetoin,diactyl,and butyric acid already and just don’t know it.I just checked my juice bottles that i purchased here in the local vape shops and none of them list any ingredients at all Acetoin may be perfectly safe to vape,that is really what i was asking.I probably worded the post all wrong,my bad.Thank you all for the help.I really appreciate it.Thanks Again,Karey
Don’t Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl break down into diacetyl? I thought that was the concern with them?
Yeah, I just dug this up, the source is Dr. Farsalinos (TLDR - there is a concern (not evidence) of this):
"Acetoin is one of the chemicals that produce a buttery flavor. It is one of the three main chemicals that produce this flavor. The other ones are of course diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Acetoin by itself is not a reason for concern…however, since…during the production of acetoin diacetyl is also produced, it is possible that the [diacetyl] contamination issue we saw [in our study]–in some liquids that contained diacetyl, but not at very high levels, so [our conclusion was that in those cases] it is not intentionally added [and we theorize that] the contamination levels that we found may have come from acetoin.
Therefore, you may get an acetoin flavoring which is not very pure acetoin but contains traces, or somewhat higher levels of diacetyl… So from this perspective, it is a problem. But acetoin itself, as a substance, is not a problem when inhaled. Unless–and this is something we are going to test–unless acetoin is transformed into diacetyl during heating. … It’s very unlikely that [diacetyl] will come out during the steeping process or [over time sitting in a bottle] but, by heating, there is a possibility that we have to check, whether when you heat acetoin [to the temperatures used in e-cigarettes] that there is a production of diacetyl. We have to check that to make sure, otherwise, acetoin is not a reason for concern by itself." [/quote]
I’m interested in reading more about this do you have some journal articles by they that so I can read the research your talking about?
Realistically, the only “safe” alternative is to pick up a box of Betty Crocker cake mix and eat a cake. Although, some would argue that that is also debatable. By vaping at all, you are taking on some level of risk. But you are wise to read up and educate yourself on the particulars so you can effectively evaluate that risk for yourself.
But not the batter… salmonella gonna getcha!!
There is a ton of good info on here ,you can type any of those in the search box at the top right hand corner.
This thread has several good links.
Here is a couple of articles.
Okay so while looking for a good cake batter, I stumbled upon this thread.
I am totally with @zigz on this and acetoin breaking down into worse components. This is the rule I follow, and as such, I do not buy ANY flavorings with acetoin. This is keeping me from a lot of good flavors…
Has there been any more progress on this topic?
It would sure open up quite a few flavors, if it is safer than I am taking it to be…
Hey rks you might wanna take another look at CAP cake batter… Ive used it quite a lot because it does not contain any of those chemicals I cannot promounce. Heres a full link with description from Wizard Labs.
I’m actually not that concerned with it in my personal juice. The levels are still 0.1 to 0.01 times what was in cigs, and I never planned to quit those until they killed me if I hadn’t stumbled into vaping, so yeah, don’t put me quite on the anti-acetoin bandwagon. I’m just on the let’s get more info bandwagon.
Not to beat a dead horse but agree w/ the consensus that Acetoin isn’t “unsafe” to vape. While it is a diketone you may not be interested in ( I can understand that ) you may want to look at a few other Cake Batters that are a suitable subs for Caps.
Neither of these contain Acetoin. They won’t be a 1:1 sub since none of these vendors use exact ingredients these two are close enough.
Perfect! This pretty much confirms I need to get into Real Flavors, they have been calling for my attention more and more lately.
Worried about safety, quality, and taste, in that order. If that means I have to chop through more flavors before I arrive at the best one (subjectively), that is okay with me.
Today my box of bad flavors officially grew larger than my box of good ones.
I’d try this one https://www.realflavors.com/products/cake-batter-extract it’s bound to be more flavorful faster since all of the RF concentrates are based in VG they do take time steeping. The RF raws are extracts which have no binders and therefore are stronger and take time to steep I just see them steeping a bit easier for the unpatient DIy’er
Sorry about the box of bad flavors growing But just set them aside it’s a funny thing sometimes are taste really do change and in DIY it is the same revisit the flavors later and you may of changed your mind…unless of course they are in the bad box bc they have bad stuff in them , well then they won’t ever change
I used to be concerned (very early on) due to the whole thing being a brand new experience to me. But the more I’ve continued to read, and the more thought I’ve given it, the more I keep reaching the same conclusion. Compared to smoking, which is what I’d still be doing if it weren’t for vaping, I’d be ingesting more than 4000 chemicals (roughly 100 of which are known carcinogens) between 30-40 times a day (between a pack and a half to two packs).
Thought I arrived at? Why the hell am I worrying about these 3 chemicals in percentages that are so miniscule, when I was more than willing to subject my body to far worse for decades?
TLDR: IMO the difference in harm reduction between the two ends of the vaping spectrum (D/A/AP or all DX and v2 products…) is not worth worrying about. I’m already miles ahead by not smoking. If I want that last couple hundred feet, I’ll quit vaping.
A very good point. Perhaps when I run out of flavors to buy, I will start buying a few.
and then hate myself for not doing it sooner…
The only compromise I make is FW Watermelon. Soooo good.
If I ever started buying, I would get FW Hazelnut, first thing. It kills me to not have…
Have you tried the loranns Cake batter? I am in the camp that cannot stomach Caps version. Not pleased to be honest with RF version either. Delosi is the best version IMO but now you got me curious now about LOR Cake batter
I forgot about Delosi yes their cake batter is good too.
If you like Delosi then I think you’ll love LA’s Cake batter very rich and creamy.
I also can’t stand using Cap Cake batter because of the smell, and I don’t think it tastes like cake batter even after steeping for weeks. This was one of the first flavors I mixed up, and it still is sitting here, maybe it’s the % I used, which I didn’t know to record at the time!! I have learned since then. I read online that there are people who use it in recipies for a cake like quality, but I feel there are other flavors, like Cap vanilla cupcake, that are better, in my newb point of view. When I started, I ordered my first batch of supplies from Central Vapors, they sell their own brand of flavor concentrates. I didn’t realize that I wouldn’t be able to use them in many recipies. I got their cake batter, which I think is amazing, and very low priced. It tastes just like cake batter. You can shake and vape it right away, it is tasty on it’s own. I have started using that in recipies instead of CAP. I know that it changes the flavor, but I just cannot stomach CAP’s version in my recipies. Now that I have started using CAP, TPA, FA, FLV, INW, etc…in my mixes, I order flavors from Central Vapors that I don’t need to use in recipies. They offer all of the concentrates for their juice brand, similar to what vape wild does. So far, I have used the cake batter, pina colada, and Freddy’s Pebbles as one flavor mixes with great results. I just ordered carmel cheesecake because I am looking for a better cheesecake flavor than Lorann, which many people say is the best. I know there are experienced mixers that are probably purists and do not use premade flavors like some of these. But they do also offer many flavor alternatives if you can’t find just the right orange, banana, coconut, etc…I am happy for my newbie mistake of ordering flavor concentrates from Central Vapors! Lol! I still order all my liquid nicotine from them. I haven’t really found another good supplier for that. Plus, I get everything very fast and shipping is very reasonable.