This whole recipe thing

E-liquids General
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If you want something that 80% of people will like, make something strawberry flavored. LoL. Seriously, apparently that’s everyone’s favorite flavor. Not mine, fyi, although I do have some strawberry mixes I vape regularly.

Honestly, I’ll echo some of the sentiment I’ve already seen said here. Mix what you like. I’m far from famous for my recipes (or any other reason, for that matter), so if you’re looking for advice on getting that, I can’t help you. I mix for myself and I only share in the hopes of inspiring someone else.

As to narrowing down recipes to try, I struggled with that a lot at first. There weren’t half as many recipes in the DB when the forum was born, but I still had about 1,000 I wanted to try. What worked for me was figuring out what general type of thing I liked, and then I found other mixers I trusted to have good recipes I liked and followed them. I still branch out and try new things from time to time, but I make sure I always have plenty of my favorites to vape along the way.

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I did disclaim that it was a little ‘stream-of-consciousness’ of a thought process… I actually meant ‘how do you’, not how do I. Like, how do you long-timers do it personally. The general advice presented so far is excellent advice (and probably been dispensed at this mixing forum many times). And the specific things you folks do is also welcome reading. Thank you all who have opined.

My struggle is not with how to mix, it’s with how to decide what to mix. I was hoping actually that there really was some other secret way I was not aware of besides time and testing. I’m guessing there is not.

Mainly, also, I’m pretty annoyed with myself for spending a year and a half adrift in a sea of syringes, making average juices in an only slightly repeatable way. If I’d used weight from the opening bell, I could have been more highly focused this whole time, and have been much further down the road, like you guys are.

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@Lexie3
Smart and final one ounce Souffle cups and lids

5 ml of PG-VG and 3% flavoring was how I single tested all mine as they arrived.
100 small plastic cups and bar straws was my solution to all that single flavor testing.

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@Bob_Bitchen Bob did you just mix them up like single flavor recipe minus the nic? I love the cup idea but to store that for me wouldnt work so well. I even saw test tubes i was thinking of that are 5ml.

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@mrpipes answer covered it pretty succinctly. :slight_smile:

The key (and hardest part) is finding your balance.
If you SF test from the start (as you are acquiring your flavors), you’ll be less likely to have to try and play catch up… But my general rule of thumb is: Try and have as many testers going as I do mixes.

If I’m mixing 4 recipes, then I’m mixing 4 SF testers at the same time (usually more, because I’m still playing catchup from not being able to buy enough bottles to start with.

But, because you’re not going to know what percentages you need (prefer) for a single flavor when testing, that means you have to do 2-3 bottles for each flavor.
IE: when testing FW, I’d mix a new flavor at 4%, 6%, and 8%. For FA, I typically do one tester at 1%, and another at 3%.
So even though you’re only SF 4 flavors… You can see how that quickly turns into 10-12 bottles. and that’s in addition to the 4 “recipe mixes” that you’ve got going to simply “feed the habit”.

No ‘exploratory’ (experimenting) mixes even considered yet, and you’ve already got 14-16 bottles going. Then, if you want to try something new… That may be another 2-3 bottles (or more). So it’s easy to end up with 20+ bottles in one mixing session, for just 4-6 recipes, and 4 SF tests.

But you have to find what works for you.

The most important thing is making sure that you have enough to feed your daily requirement. (Not only so you don’t run out, but so you don’t dip into your testers before the planned testing points.)

The second most important thing (having learned the hard way) is make sure that you vary your profiles when selecting mixes and testers*! Or you risk getting burned out. Both your palate, and your frustration level with mixing! (EG: don’t mix all heavy flavors for SF testing simultaneously! Like butterscotch, caramel, brown sugar, etc. Your palate will be screaming for something different by the time you’re halfway through that few weeks or month of testing, and you’ll be miserable and get really frustrated with “this isn’t working at all”.)

*the exception to this rule is when you reach the point of doing a “shootout”. Where you’ve reached the point of knowing what percentages of SF you prefer for each brand/variation of say caramel.
You then mix one tester of each, at your preferred percentage to compare the profiles side by side. This gives you a chance to refresh, and either reaffirm your earlier notes (from SF tests) or update things you might have missed, or forgotten.
But regardless, I still consider this a part of single flavor testing (just narrowing down what you’re wanting to keep/eliminate for the long haul), and as such, when I do a shootout, I still mix a batch of SF testers (again, previously untested flavors) along with the shootout flavors, and in addition to my “daily needs” mixes.

So… You can take any part of this, all of it, or practically ignore it and blaze your own trail! :laughing: But this is how I’ve approached things (since you asked). :wink:

What do I think? Well, in one sense, I feel like I’m way behind my “classmates” that started at the same time, in relation to releasing recipes.

In another sense, I take solace in the fact that I know the flavors I’ve tested this far very well, and that when it comes time, I’ll be able to simply “think about” what sounds good, and be able to ‘insta-create’ a recipe that’s at least 80-90% of where I want/expect it to be, on my whim. (There’s always a refinement phase, as well as the rare ‘this flavor doesn’t chemically play well with others possibility’ to deal with or adjust for).

And lastly, I’m proud (right or wrongly so) that I haven’t “polluted” the public ELR database with recipes that are anywhere from crap, to “eh, it’s not bad”. As IMO, that’s the single biggest problem (and disservice) to new mixers. If more folks would put their pride aside, and not worry about “look what I mixed”, or some race that doesn’t exist…and keep those recipes private, new folks would have a much easier time finding at least a “good recipe” to begin with. But again, it’s all relative. :wink:

I hope my long winded rambling enables you to pull some tidbit(s) out, and have an easier road, or better understanding!

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37

There’s nothing more accurate than a medical grade syringe (for our purposes)! This discussion has been hashed out before, and rather than re-open it, I’ll condense to say I still mix with syringes because of the high degree of accuracy and as a result: repeatability.

As long as you are using the syringe properly, it is 100% accurate and repeatable. Whereas mixing by weight still has to contend with varying drop size (hence weight variance) from all the different types and sizes of tips on different bottles. The concensus is though, that the advantage gained (convenience and speed) far outweighs the accuracy aspect, since you’re only talking about minute variances.

I’ll agree. It’s definitely going to be faster mixing by weight. And more convenient.

But I will take issue every time when someone says mixing by weight is more accurate. Because it’s not.

This is dubious at best, but I gather you have a new found excitement, and for that, I celebrate with you!

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@Sprkslfly @Bob_Bitching
I found these and think i will try some

I just ordered a couple of these sets i think its a good price for so many, SO now make up a base pg/vg would be the next step I assume then add the flavor maybe with piplettes? I have 100s of those.

Hopefully I am on right track because i plan to whip this out as soon as they arrive

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I’m not going to argue. It doesn’t matter, I guess, what I think as long as it works for me. Having mixed for a long time with syringes and knowing how it and I interacted, I can’t see it being more accurate. This is not the purpose of the thread and it isn’t worth a long debate with furrowed brows and robust keystrokes.

So, we’ll all celebrate. Why not. The purpose of this forum is to engage those passionate about DIY mixing and exchange ideas, provide inspiration, and advance our own abilities to create vapeable things.

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I don’t want to either, nor am I trying to. Just wanted to make sure that the information for those reading is presented accurately. Preference is irrelevant. :wink:

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Since we mostly all just mix for our own amusement and pleasure as long you get repeatable duplicable results from your attempts it’s all good.
I weigh my PG and VG and drop count the flavors for the most part as I don’t usually mix more then 50ml of any recipe at once. Way to many fun possibilities to mix a large batch of anything now.

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That’s 50/50 with me. I like finding new go-to’s, but when I do, I like to make a decent clump of it so I have enough to get my fix when I want it, especially for ones requiring long steeps.

The wife, however, would be happy with 5 ADV’s from now until the end of time. I am ‘fortunate’ enough to be able to mix for two. And build for two. And buy for two. And maintain for two…

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It is what works for you. I only mix for my wife and I and while I have given away some to friends, I won’t do it on a regular basis. It’s certainly not about a little time and/or money, It’s because I don’t want the headache plus the laws in Indiana are so jacked up it would be foolish.

I have a hybrid weight/ volume method that came out of necessity. I’ve gone through a few gallons of VG from different sources and started noticing that the specific gravities were different. So I’m using the scale for flavors and volume for VG. So its what works for us as individuals. Maybe a little (or a lot) OCD but I know my mixes are accurate and repeatable.

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Stay with me here, I think I have something that could be something. If it has been discussed before, sorry.

A story, followed by an example, followed by my thoughts. If you TL;DR, no worries.

So, I saw an episode of Food: Fact or Fiction, and one segment dealt with how the mind perceives flavor. Not the physical process, the psychological part. Basically, it was this: Researchers were trying to determine bias. Specifically, they took a subject blindfolded and asked her to taste four different cake slices. Each were identical except for the icing color. All four were from the same cake batter but with different COLORED icing (same flavor, vanilla). Each time, the blindfolded subject identified the right profile, and each time she said it tasted like the previous one.

Then, they removed the blindfold and asked her to try again. This time, she was able to see the slice prior to tasting. And each time, she identified a different flavor. Pink was strawberry, brown was chocolate, green was lime, and blue was birthday cakey tasting.

Remember, all four were the same one from the blind test, and all four were identical except for the icing color. Yet she tasted them differently when she could see them.

OK, now my own real world example, my wife. And vape juice.

She hates Egg Nog, the real thing. So I handed her my vape filled with TFA Egg Nog, and she did not like it. Said it was nasty.

Later, I handed her the SAME thing, but didn’t tell her what it is. She said it was OK, kind of sweet and creamy. She said she’d vape that one once in a while. She did not believe me when I told her it was the very same Egg Nog she tried and hated earlier.

OK, now on to my idea.

How about maybe we think of a brand new way to craft a recipe? How about you have someone you trust put SF samples into unlabeled (like only numbers, not the actual flavor name) bottles and you do a blind test. You make notes about what you think, you never get told what each one is. Then, you craft a recipe based on your notes, what you think would pair well, etc.

Removing the bias and mixing flavors your palate tells you rather than your bias may open the door to some incredible recipes that would otherwise never be created.

Thoughts?

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A1. Yes
A2. Yes and No
A3. a: make an informed decision by reading reviews, listening to folks comments, and get lucky. b: really no way to do this except for following part a of this question, and mixing the recipe yourself, fully steeping said recipe, and sampling the recipe.
A4. I just follow instructions given above in A3 a… I pick the recipe that uses flavors I think I may like. I do like to vape 40/60 9mg, so I do adapt my chosen recipe and mix it to my prefered nic & pg/vg ratio.
A5. I like weird names like “Moon Butter” but I always go by the answers given in A3 & A4 above. Names are like time, just relative.
A6. Be sure to not take too many Tylenol for your headache, a side effect from overdose of tylenol may be guess what… headaches and nausea. And welcome to the world of mad scientists, I’m sure you will enjoy about %50 of your experiments :yum:

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I agree. I just sort of added that on in my mindless-stream thing. I pretty much meant a different name for the same recipe.

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Well, being up front and honest, I take it automatically that everyone is “nuts” till I’m shown different.:wink:

This is not true, many of us have similar palates and why we can rate each others recipes. Taste is fair to say subjective when someone has a recipe that 100 people give a 5 star rating and one other person gives a substantially lower rating. I don’t think you are looking at the whole picture. Making e-liquids is not much different than cooking food for others and hoping they will like it. If it is good most will and a few won’t if it’s bad most won’t and 1 or 2 might like what you’ve made. Pretty much, this goes the same for e-liquids.

You need to go with profiles that you like using the concentrates that you like. You may also like a said recipe better changing one or two concentrates to a preferred brand as well. Best way to find out is try the ones you like or that looks interesting and if you don’t like it don’t give up. Customize the e-liquid to suite your likes

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Some of the flavors I vape Have the weird names, I can assure you there is no milk or unicorns in unicorn milk. the combination of the flavors that are there make their own unique flavor, I don’t even taste the strawberries.
As far as the “blind taste tests” I’ll bow out as I have watched similar experiments and seen folks gagging as they tried to vape sriracha hot sauce :slight_smile:

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For @Lexie3 one thing I would like to expand upon a little is that there is nothing wrong with single flavor or 2 flavor mixes. In fact some are very good but when I search recipes containing them it is rare that I find anything I like as well. For example right this minute I am vaping a ginger ale SF and really like it. But my wife thinks its nasty. Also fruit flavors (some) develop more quickly than most others and often within a few days .

I think like most others who begin by attempting complex recipes is the well established fact that very often less is more. I didn’t really learn this until I began using FA which remain my favorites. As to "less is more I ran across this explanation quite some time ago which was made by a person who works pure aroma volatiles and knows a great deal about how the flavor changes with concentration.

“Aroma volatiles give the impression of a flavor in generally a very specific range of PPM in concentrate. Going over that range can change the flavor. For example, the aroma volatile of jasmine is the identical aroma volatile of feces at higher concentration. Also, the aroma volatile of butter flavor is the identical aroma of vomit at higher concentration.
Flavor concentrates are typically built with 3-12 different individual volatiles, so adding more concentrate to a mix may end up increasing some or all those volatiles into the feces/vomit range and then you end up with problems.”

Experienced mixers know their flavors where they are able to almost instinctively avoid these problems. Hope this helps. Keep it simple starting. I wish I would have.

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Your children are developing their sense of taste, be sure to allow them to taste as much of the food flavors that they can, or that you can sneak into their diet. At the same time please protect them by not allowing them to taste any of the toxins they might find that might look like food like the household chemicals, PG/VG, nicotine etc.
I’m glad they didn’t have laundry detergent pods when I was growing up :blush:

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I kinda scanned thru this tread, but It’s full of opinions and quickly became too long to read.

If you’re looking for short cuts to becoming a good mixer, then I say forget about it.

The majority of those that think they’re good mixers are really not. And those following some of those mixers will quickly learn what not to do.

If you’re only using TPA, Cap and FW, you’re probably a basic mixer.

ELR database is so saturated with basic flavorings and recipes that it’s really, really tough to just grab a recipe and be impressed by it… even if it’s very popular.

The best investment I ever made since I started DIYing is buying more accurate flavors than some of these common brands. So when you add apple to a recipe, it’s really apple.

So when you see a profile that appeals to you, sub those common flavors for more spot on flavor brands and you will quickly see a difference.

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