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Toxic Metals in E-Cigarette Vapors


#41

#42

Ya i agree with @worm please lets get it back on track if you want to talk dna mods lets pop that in a different thread - i am not going to split it as so many answers here are intertwined - so let rerail this puppy


#43

You don’t have to worry about that here , seldom we give anyone shit for the way they vape.On occasion we do get a troll who tries to stir the pot but we tend to go back to our circle jerk , swap hands and sing some Dylan tunes.
You know any Dylan tunes , join us… we will make room!:fist::love_you_gesture:
As far as metals go and the dangers , I would think that a good grade of SS or Grade 1 Titanium would be the “safest” .
I did not read the articles, sorry…did they specify what coils they were using for the test? I find it really hard to believe making my own and wiping them down would have an unacceptable level of toxins. If they were testing the coil heads on some of the thousands of disposable coils coming out of China , then I am not surprised.


#44

Every time you install a new coil you fire it before wicking to remove hot spots right?
Honestly, i’m not too worried about oils or ‘toxins’ from my hands if that’s what you are referring to.
I’m not that filthy. Besides, any residue left on the coil is burned away when you heat the coil to glowing red hot.
I didn’t really look much into those articles linked…
Seems like OP was letting the FDA get to him.


#45

But it’s a good habit to wash hands before rewicking, recoiling and mixing.
And i usually do before all three things.


#46

When using Ti as a coil I do not pre-fire.SS I don’t pre-fire the coil unless I am making contact coils.I seldom use kanthal any more unless it is an outer wrap on a clapton coil.I do lightly pulse all my multi wire builds. I wipe down to remove any dirt and or machine oils from the wire.


#47

If you can’t dry burn because of Nickel or Titanium wiping the wire down is probably the best thing you can do.
:raised_hand:t2::raised_back_of_hand:t2:

You are also all about the TC?


#48

Not at all , I do use it on occasion .My normal setup is in watts mode or using a single battery mechanical.


#49

I would be quiet around the block with that if i were you…
Just sounded like everyone was on TC now.
And i, who thought TC was a fad.


#50

well looks like @therabidweasel was awake in chemistry class, not an easy trick :grinning:

this thread is so derailed I have lost track of most of it, but about the generation of toxic compounds as a result of using ti or ss wire as a heating element in any currently available vape gear I would say it is a total non issue. As theweasel points out you will have a very small amount of titanium oxides naturally present on the surface of the wire.

Three points about that:
1.) all toxicity to humans is related to the amount (of toxin) absorbed, in this case a few micro grams, which in any case is fully captured and is non soluble in PG or VG so it remains on the wire surface and never is “vaporized” and therefore never absorbed by your system
2.) you could not turn titanium oxide into its vapor state at several thousand degrees C, it will remain, for all practical purposes as a captured solid in your vape system.
3.) And anyway you could inhale pounds of the stuff: If you care about the toxicity of titanium dioxide then you better not brush your teeth with white toothpaste, better not paint you walls white, better not (do almost anything with the color white), as that compound is the most universally used white pigment colorant in your house. It is virtually universal, and it is everywhere: here is the link to show you a few hundred examples:
https://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=chem&id=90

4.) (extra bonus rant point) The “junk science” crowd wants you to believe that compounds like titanium dioxide have some sort of lurking power to turn your body cells cancerous (through a mechanism that is ???) . If you think that junk science only hangs out with the anti tobacco zealots then you have never been around cancer research ! Junk theories of micro- abrasion nonsense at the molecular cellular level has captured millions$ of phony grant money. Snake oil, but it funds grants. If you think they just want to take your vape mod, think again, they also want to take the white paint off your walls.

A study of 1,576 workers in the U.S. exposed to TiO2 for more than one year used incidence data from 1956 through 1985. Mortality data was available from the company for the years 1935 through 1983. There was no excess of lung cancer or chronic respiratory disease and no cases of pulmonary fibrosis. [Rom, p. 537-8] Cases of pulmonary fibrosis associated with exposure to TiO2 have been reported, but the reactions may have been caused by silica present as contamination. [Hendrick, p. 180-1] No listed effects of short-term or long-term exposure; [ICSC] “NIOSH has determined that ultrafine TiO2 (…) that there are insufficient data at this time to classify fine TiO2 as a potential occupational carcinogen.”


#51

Yeah I paid some attention in class, seemed like forever. If you were to search around in old threads you’d find quite a few mentions of the points youve raised by many others and me. So you’re in good company.

I think you are a little less concerned with particulate than me, although my concern is minimal. But stopping before I ramble off topic again.


#52

I’m calling bullshit and scaremongering on these articles! :rage:

For example “Vaping, the practice of inhaling this aerosol as if it were cigarette smoke, is now popular especially among teens, young adults and former smokers.” that pretty much sums up the purpose of the article.

Also they are grossly exaggeration the amount of metals found, 15 µg/kg of lead may sound like a lot, but you would actually need to vape about 750ml of ejuice to get those 15 µg, and it would only constitute something like 1% of the maximum daily recommended dose (depending on how much you vape and which recommended numbers you use) .

Seeing the actual study would be interesting, but the articles linked are completely useless.


#53

Chromium (Cr)
A cofactor in the regulation of sugar levels. Chromium deficiency may cause hyperglycemia (elevated blood sugar) and glucosuria (glucose in the urine).

Manganese (Mn)
Major component of the mitochondrial antioxidant enzyme manganese superoxide dismutase. A manganese deficiency can lead to improper bone formation and reproductive disorders. An excess of manganese can lead to poor iron absorption.


#54

Anyone here who makes fancy coils with titanium or are you all using it as regular round wire?
I’m having a hard time going back to regular round wire after being used to fused claptons for over a year now…


#55

The four things that stand out the most to me are:

  1. The limited (a hand picked 56) size of the study sample.
  2. The levels of lead found are toxic (why aren’t we all suffering from heavy metal poisoning?).
    2a) They have no idea where the lead comes from. (Alchemists weigh in here please.)
  3. That this study contradicts every other study concerning toxins in the vapor.
  4. They don’t list any of the hardware or liquids tested.

oh yeah, 5) It’s a study funded by the anti-everything exhaled crowd.

I’d like to see these test results confirmed by an independent lab with a proper sample size then I’ll pay attention.

Nobody ever said vaping was healthy, just better than a cigarette.


#56

Define “healthy”. Literally healthy like exercise, or just not unhealthy?


#57

Eden Mods tested the Rose 3 for TPD compliancy and the results didn’t show any heavy metals.

Rose 3 TPD tests

Edited: although it doesn’t state what coil material was used


#58

Is there a tutorial for this somewhere? I’ve searched around and could only find people saying how great it is, but not how to make it!


#59

OK, I will make a stab at defining that for you: In the case of all this thread discussion (at least the part that is on track…) the subject, at its core is basically revolving around the definition that you are asking for: In other words if something about either the vapor, the coils, the -e-juice, whatever, if there something “toxic” in there then it would be “un-healthy”. So if we define what is toxic then we have our definition of unhealthy.

Toxicity is an interesting subject. But it is not trivial. One of the problems of these internet forums is that, inevitably, folks want answers to very complex subjects reduced to a paragraph or two in a forum like this one. I post links all the time that discuss such issues. I don’t know if anyone reads them, but I hope so. Here is one for you,

https://toxtutor.nlm.nih.gov

The above is the Toxicity Tutor created by the NIH, it is a self paced course in medical toxicology. - I have a sort of ‘love-hate’ relation ship with NIH. I use services like that from them and also things like their TOXNET ( https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov) all the time, and encourage others here in the vaping community to do the same. That is the love part. The hate part is that, NIH sits on a huge pile of your federal tax dollars, and I have grave concerns about how their grant funding process works. Like everything in Washington DC it is highly politicized and subject to abuse from the ‘junk science’ crowd.

As long as I am on the subject, I want to comment and make very clear to the readers here abt what the OP actually posted to start this thread: I know it is hard to get your head around the following: but ‘research institutions’ like J. Hopkins from where the papers were published are huge ‘for profit big businesses’. They employ hundreds of people, they have large physical buildings and plants, all which must be paid for.

They are constructed, internally, with sophisticated marketing and public relations staff. What the OP linked to is not a peer reviewed journal research paper! It is the ‘press release about the paper’. There is a huge difference. It amounts to a spin advertisement that J Hopkins marketing dept put out for public relations purposes. I question the motives of this, now common, practice of issuing what amounts to advertisements for so-called ‘scientific research’ conducted by the institution. The hazard is that these advertisements, which contain numerous errors, as noted by some previous posters here, are picked up by major wire services and outside news organizations and become what is known as ‘if it bleeds it leads’ headlines in the popular press. Thus misinforming millions of people, legislators, and yes, even misinforming the vapers right here on this forum.


#60

It’s here. First result

http://forum.e-liquid-recipes.com/search?q=Deep