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Updating flavor naming conventions (an update from Sprks)


#82

@Suomynona Well shit, I didn’t know that. :open_mouth:
@Mizzz_Z_Hobbit Although we may disagree on some things, I appreciate you taking the time to reply, AND, by making a clear case, as to why not. Thank you.


#83

I find this a bit of an egocentric reason to cause disturbance to other people. This is a community where your actions have an effect on other users, it’s not a personal website where you only work in your own personal workspace.
Every community has some rules to let things go smooth and have a little standardization.

This is not necessarily true. People can still make a NET or stone, and if they provide a proper description about it so that others can work with it too (stones), there’s no reason why this “flavor” shouldn’t be approved and entered in the database. I realize it’ll be a bit different for NETs, but there are technical solutions for everything.


#84

@Mizzz_Z_Hobbit I didn’t realize other websites were already using an approved/pending approval system, but I actually thought about this lil’ problem for a while, and I felt bad for the mods / staff here, because the current system where anything can be added to the database, it just seemed as an endless “chasing your tail” trying to correct (after the fact) something that would never STAY corrected. It truly seems/seemed the only way to address it was on the front end. NOW, with THAT said, I actually CAN see your “it’s on the bottle” point as well, and am trying to think how I organize my bottles, stash, and how I actually look for, and look up flavors to dig deeper into what I actually do, in regards to this.


#85

@Suomynona I’m NET challenged, can you elaborate on this ??


#86

NET are flavor extracts you make at home from your own tobacco or whatever… it’s not as straight forward as saying my stone is 20% this, 30% that and 50% something else.
But I’m sure there’s space in any database for those as well, just give it a proper name and description should be enough no?


#87

Whose ego are you concerned with though? It’s not the new mixer’s fault that rebottlers are changing the names of flavors and brands. Maybe my perspective is very different from yours and from any of the people complaining about this. To me, this isn’t an issue of “these new people screwing up the database with wrong names” I see it more as “these new people won’t get the most out of the data base unless they know to use standard names.”

Most of the people I see pitching a fit about this naming issue are experienced enough to navigate around the unconventional names anyway making it a non-issue for them. The main issue is creating the most accurate data for all of us but especially for those who don’t know the tricks to fiddling with the calc.


#88

OK so what about those vendors that re-bottle/re-label the flavors?? We’ve all run across those same flavors with different names. Then what?


#89

Well I can fully attest to helping bork up the DB when I first came here, and it WAS confusing. I had loads of bottles from TPA that actually had FA on the bottles ?? !!! There are other examples, but I can remember how jacked up hard it was, at first, to try and figure out what was actually what. The manufacturers, AND the re-bottlers don’t help out much either.

I’m trying to take an HONEST look, waaaaaaaay back when I first came here, and I’m wondering if (added to the existing “Welcome to ELR”, “How to Get Started” posts), we actually had a SHORT, easy to read, tutorial (maybe with a few pics) on how to determine what’s what, what we’d like to call manufacturers names, etc., if that would have helped me out. I think it would have.


#90

My concern is with the people that spend hours trying to fix the flavor database while people keep doing their own thing, making a total mess. I’m sorry, I’m not the most diplomatic person and my choice of words could often be better… I didn’t mean to imply you’re an egocentric person.


#91

These are all of really good ideas, each with pros and cons. But my sense is nothing is going to come from any of it which may sound like a defeatist attitude, but that’s what it is.

I’ll refrain from any further input on this unless asked. Good luck!


#92

I don’t think it’s FUBAR yet @TorturedZen.


#93

I have mentioned the need for a master list to check if its a renamed brand which would be handy for even the most knowledgeable peps here


#94

I’m OCD and could benefit …


#95

That wasn’t how I took it. It’s starting to seem like a tug of war between those who enjoy the freedom of making their own juice (entering their own flavors) and those who want accuracy in the database to an OCD level. Allowing people more freedom creates inaccuracies. Forcing conformity can stifle creativity.

The efforts of those who are trying to merge obvious duplicates is helping all of us but idea of mandating all standardized names seems too heavy handed. We already have so many ways of sorting recipes and flavors. It seems like we can get by until @daath can get the new database working. I just hope he’ll consider adding a function for sorting to the new one and isn’t tempted to sacrifice our creative freedom for the sake of conformity.


#96

I wasn’t aware that Lars was building a new DB… I suppose this whole discussion is a bit of a waste of time then and we’ll just have to wait and see what the next updates will bring.
So in the meantime, I’ll follow TZ, make like a banana and split :slight_smile:


#97

You are very observational into human nature. :wink:

Somethings Im OCD about

But in a world of control and power struggles and greed having just a tad of freedom is a very nice feeling.

I don’t see signs I only see the subliminal behind it.


#98

It’s not a waste of time at all because, at least hopefully, Lars would be transferring all the existing data into a newer system so all the corrections going on now will really matter. It’s just that the newer system will have easier ways of keeping all the data more organized.

I was gonna mention that but it was your idea, lol. :wink:


#99

That’s part of the problem though. With a fully open database and not nearly enough warning signs up stating this, people simply do not realize that there are no silos, no locked down areas, and no automated rule sets in place that prevent homogenization. I know I did not realize this for a long time, even after I came to the forum side. I know most users who never haunt the forum probably also do not realize this. It is a vast ocean, where everything dumped into it merges, melds, and coexists together with zero separation. From a standard flavor to a cryptic personal note- there is no separation, no demarcation.

I feel that people are treating this as their own personal computer simply because most have no idea just how much of a wild west, open ended database this is. And, written rules will never fix this. Only a locked down, fully controlled DB will.


#100

All I would like to see it a separate public stash and a private personal stash that I can organize to suit me. I have no problem with following standard naming in the public arena for flavors or public recipes; actually think it’s preferable. If I could figure out how to put just the calculator on my desktop I would, then group my stash as I see fit and link to the calculator.


#101

But then you’re totally neglecting the developers feelings. I mean what if “show casing” the add flavor is something that might attract a potential buyer to license the web app, so ELR can remain free for everyone in the future. Im in favor of whats best for ELR is best for everyone. If that means “locking it down” or staying as-is “open.” That’s my final thoughts.