DIY vape vs original brands

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@Bad_Influence bad
Thanks for your fair and supportive words. Maybe I am raving a bit against diy cause I expected to make success in cloning just this one single commercial juice that I can’t stand without having at least 3 brand new bottles in the drawer.

It did push me to the edge. Your kind words though bring me to a confession I had diy successes, I have learned tricks on the way, I learned what I can’t stand (acetyl pyrazine for ex), I made it sonehow through my pg sensitivity, I switched from mtl to dl and back to restrictive dl to be now back partly into mtl.

But those constant changes take much energy and if I can’t clone a single stupid liquid I feel defeated.

But I must say along this journey it was 2 weeks ago I discovered completely new flavors, those by VTA, ordered some to study them and give them my best use. The other ones are by Malaysian Reka, very hard to find. I was sure their 2 flavors were needed to clone my favourite commercial recipe. And yeah, they do smell pretty close like being ingredients. But after mixing 15 various combination which all have that distinctive nice tobacco vanillish smell and letting them to steep for 2-3 weeks I was killed: almost the same smell of the juice but once you go use it in testing Hadaly rda it is again nothing like the original commercial. That is sooooo frustrating.

But, to be honest here, there just might be 1 or 2 juices that I need to develop a bit further. And, even though they won’t be a desired clone they are pretty good, maybe even better in some ways than the original.

So, guys who claim diy is better, I can understand you. However, so much effort to maybe come into relative vicinity of what is sold on every corner? I should’ve done better.

But, going public and asking people how they do it, what’s their experience in diy, I am learning I am not alone. Many people had poor or some success but continue the diy. I became a bit tired of it and asking myself why doing it in the 1st place? For a hobby? Well I have hobbies I prefer but don’t have enough time for because a juice needs to be mixed, items ordered, reviews watched, drawers cleaned, ELR comments filled in…
To save a few 100€/year? No.
To just enjoy it? Well, ok, I could claim that if travelling to the goal is more important than the goal itself. But I simply can’t afford the time for seeking for the Holy Grail if I can buy loads of it online.

And, I still do think the majority of the recognized juices out there are 50% better than the average of some 300 diy juices I’ve made until now. 90% of them steeped, tested and - poured down the sink. 90%!! I ve never poured away a commercial juice. Well, lying, I did pour away one I couldn’t stand for too strong ac.pyr. But, that’s ine out of 30 various juices vaped. I am so fond of my Horny mango I am hiding it from myself so that it would last longer… Pacha mama as well. But, when it comes to Nasty Silver I need 3 bottlesxat least because of being afraid to stay without it. In 3 years there’s not been a single day I would not vape it. Not an ADV but obviously ALV = all life vape😉. I am saying a full truth here.

So, if in 3 years I was not able to clone it nore were some friends of mine able to do so - why bother at all?

Go buy 5 bottles more and screw diy.

I am a person who wants to get things done. I can’t stand a failure. But, after reading so many of you saying - forget about cloning - I will need to accept that. Once I loose that imperative I don’t think anything will ever again keep me to be so persistant.

So I remain sceptic on successes of my diy liquids.

Cheers and thanks for your kind support.

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where are you ? ooops, just noticed your name.

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This is why I have changed my approach from designing recipes from scratch to stealing others and tweaking them. It was hard to accept but I’ve found out I have no clue. I’ve started with some great ideas but nothing worked. After reading a lot here on ELR I then used recipes others were talking about and had a few variations.
This has nothing to do with skill or special taste abilities or any of that. Just trial and error which gets a bit easier with experience.

This here is the recipe I ended up with after this process. I found one which came close to what I liked and just changed the vanilla to what was my favorite at the time. Needs a long steep but I used this recipe for at least a year or so. I just stopped mixing it because I barely use mtl these days and still ahve 200ml or so in the fridge.

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@MTL_sLOVEnia you’ve received a LOT of responses thus far, and I’ve not made it through them all yet. I’m not even sure what palate or profile(s) you like to even be able to guide you. There are many OLDER recipes here, that used older flavors, and due to the older equipment were, and are now massively OVER-flavored by today’s standards, and equipment.

I don’t know what recipes you tried thus far, but I have found quite a few GREAT recipes here on ELR and other sites, and in comparison to completely over sweetened commercial juice, are far superior.

I know it was mentioned above, but if you love, love, love commercial juice, then you must love sweetener, as many/most over sweeten. Doing that can conceal bad recipes, make things appear to POP, but most DIY’ers avoid this tactic.

I’ve never had that juice, but you should start with Flavorah’s Vanilla Tobacco, as it is almost a One-Shot right out of the bottle, as a single flavor.

Hehe, it IS frustrating, as we’ve all been there. Here’s the inconvenient truth however, if all you ever do, is copy OTHER people’s recipes, then that’s all you’ll have. I do a HUGE number of flavor reviews, and TEST the flavors, which allows you to know them, and better use them. I would strongly suggest testing some flavors that you prefer, then experiment with them in recipes, TAKE NOTES, find what works, and what doesn’t, and TAKE NOTES.

:slight_smile:

If it was easy, everyone would be an expert on DAY ONE, but no one ever is.

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Here you go @MTL_sLOVEnia, mix this gem up, it IS the actual recipe, along with the stupid 2.0% of Super Sweet, which is insane, and almost beyond double or tripple normal rates. See if you like this “commercial” juice.

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Vanilla Tobacco (Flavorah) 0.8% (4-11-21) – LAST ONE on deck for this new series from Flavorah. Having now tested their RY4, and Mild Tobacco, I was curious to see if this one shared similarities. It did. It had many of the rich, deep, dark almost smoky tobacco as the two aforementioned, but this time, it was layered into a deliciously light vanilla carrier. Simplistically speaking, the Mild Tobacco had a great Caramel carrier, and this one has a great Vanilla Carrier, with the RY4 being the heavy standout, as far as increased smoky notes. This one tasted great @ 0.8%, and didn’t feel like it was hitting the ceiling. It was below mid sweet, and the vanilla layer was very nicely blended in. At times I almost got more of the sweet than the Vanilla, but it was there throughout the vape. While not appearing as complex as the caramel in the Mild this one paired perfectly with the bacco notes, and held it’s own, but didn’t steal the limelight. The darker/smoky bacco notes from the other baccos was present here as well, but like the Mild, were slightly reduced to allow room for the carrier layer. All in, this one could be a GREAT first one for people wanting to delve into the world of baccos, without a slamming, in your face bacco. Finished the entire two testers on this one, and remember, I’m NOT a bacco vaper, hehe, so that should tell you something. Finishing out this series, this one had no real take-offs, except maybe for some linearity of the vanilla in comparison to the more complex caramel in the Mild. Feels, and felt really good @ 9.5/10.

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No offense meant to anyone, but I’ve found more very good recipes on ATF than anywhere else. That being said, I’ve found some great ones here along with some great ideas.

I never met a commercial juice I liked even DLLT and lemon is my #1 profile.

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Those companies probably created a hundred different variations for each flavor during the creation process. They have time, money, resources, and can hire professional flavorists (possibly?) ect. That’s what they do. Back to my variations theory, they probably taste test over and over until it’s perfectly balanced or whatever they’re going for.

Even the best mixers in DIY do it as a hobby. They can come up with some great tasting stuff but there’s a lot of average recipes out there. In 4 years of DIY I never created anything I’d call special. It takes a lot of effort for people like me. I don’t have the willpower to make dozens of variations trying to get things dialed in. I think a lot of others are the same way and settle for “Good enough”. Truthfully, I’ve been taking a break from DIY for about a year. I do plan on getting back into it but I’ve been buying my e liquid.

Commercial e liquid is the same way though. There’s plenty of duds out there. When it’s good though, it’s very good IMO.

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well said …

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And that’s the whole kit and kaboodle in a nutshell right there folks!

Not many do. Understandably so in fact.

But, by the same token, it’s the reason some folks walk in to DIY blind, with grandiose expectations (if a 100 people attempt to recreate a commercial liquid, one should be successful… Right? :roll_eyes: lol) and then are utterly disappointed with the fact that they can’t achieve instant gratification (read as: success in a perfect clone).
It’s simply not a realistic expectation.

If the OP took a look at the brand abbreviation list, counted up the number of brands there alone (which is roughly half of what exists worldwide; I’m guessing), and then factor in that almost every single one of them has their own variation (often two or more) of strawberry ALONE, and you can begin to see that the possibilities outweigh the chance of getting it EXACT.
With that said (and out of the way) though…

The ‘truth’ of the situation has finally come to light.

The OP doesn’t want to DIY as a serious hobby. Nothing wrong with that.
That’s why they still sell retail liquid.
There’s a market (and a reason) for everything though!

The reason many of us are here (to DIY) is because we enjoy it. Some do it to save money. Some do it because they saw the writing on the walls years ago (about them wanting to either shut vaping down, or put it back into the hands of the tobacco overlords and government channels who have controlled the channels where the money is channeled) and wanted to be able to become self sufficient in an area where we knew what was in the liquid going into our bodies. (Lord knows the government and big tobacco and pharma are NOT going to put our interests first. And the government in their hip pocket isn’t going to present them with any obstacles or enforcement of any MEANINGFUL standards.)

At any rate, it’s nice to see a bit more useful dialog opening up.

For what it’s worth OP, it took me a year and a half to dial in a single recipe to having the exact flavor that I wanted it to have. I went through more than 25 flavors, and countless iterations of varying percentages (for each flavor), and all the while, I was NOT even trying to clone anything.

Not many will (or need to) go that far.
But, at the same time, you’ll only get out of it what you’re willing to put into it.

If you want something fast and easy, you can do it. Whether that means you buy it off the shelf, or you simply adjust your expectations.
If you want more out of it, you have to be prepared to put the work into it.

Best of luck to everyone who reads this.
It’s all about meeting your goals and staying off combustible (and in some cases, snuff, chewing, etc) tobacco.

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Just remember that chemistry is a college degree, and food chemistry a specialization. The products we use interact with each other … and possibly there are unknown products for us …
The rest I think has already been said.
The important thing is to stay out of the stinkers.

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I wasn’t going to add to this as everyone else has explained my opinions much better than I ever could but fwiw I longed for a bottle of Jam Monster Strawberry Jam on Toast and eventually managed to grab a bottle whilst visiting Melbourne…

I brought it home and took a vape with great anticipation but was let down big time. To my tastes it was a weak strawberry with an overpowering sweetness. I really expected a deep satisfying jam taste but certainly didn’t get it. It wasn’t foul but I was definitely disappointed.
I haven’t yet but on my to try list is to attempt and make my own version as I anticipated it to taste, which undoubtedly will not be on the first attempt.

And I’d be lying if I didn’t think that $35 Australian was way too much to be paying for what I thought was a mediocre tasting flavour. But what I did take from it was that I will no longer buy into the hype surrounding any ‘premier juice’. I have certainly stolen ideas from manufacturers juices and many from here too. But as I believe is true of all juice is that you don’t truly know how it tastes until you try it for yourself.

I honestly believe that I have created juices that I enjoy but I’ve also created more that I haven’t but that’s the learning curve. I actually enjoy the process so I rarely think I’ve wasted my time or money.

The important thing that I always remind myself of is that I’m not smoking thanks to vaping and nothing else.

Ultimately if anybody is happy with paying for premixed off a shelf then good luck to them and long may they remain happy but I personally sit well and truly in the DIY corner.

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I haven’t done SB mixes in quite awhile but I wouldn’t mind trying this minus the super sweet. Are there subs for the SBs? I have the OG SB (SC)(RF) (Raw Extract) and Shisha but It seems that SB Jam (Flavor Labs) is the main point of this.

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I have had quite a different experience switching over to DIY e-juice. I did search ELR and ATF for recipes for my favorite retail juice. I only had hints on the retail bottle to tell me what was in the juice I liked and luckily discovered by a WAG at some online retail store (peanut butter custard). That lead me to the peanut butter and the custard recipes on the forums. From there I focused on the custards I liked from my sample mixes. From there I was able to learn more about custards and flavorings and how I could customize what I liked to make it just what I like the most. My e-juices these days are customized to what I really like and not what was just vapable from retail guess work while rolling the dice on so many choices, endless choices that I always wished I could tweak to make better suited to me. Most all were over sweetened, and I found out after DIY that that’s what I really liked was just the sweetness of the retail’s. Now I enjoy real flavors without all the sugar. Much, much better for me. I do also vape on the latest mods and RDTA’s using high end dual coils. These too have changed my vaping experience to the good. I have five mods and tanks with customized settings for each favorite DIY mix. Having the mods and atomizer assemblies setup for one particular juice works very well, too. I typically put the custards on temp control and crank up the tobaccos in wattage mode. Whatever fits the e-juice for best flavor output is how I setup each mod and its e-juice. No vapers tongue for me.

I will add that I learned to ignore the rating systems on the forums. I did start with the highest ratings, but quickly learned to ignore those ratings when looking for the flavor profile I wanted. Many unrated mixes are very good, but they have to resemble what I set out to mix. I only use them as guides for percentages and ingredients that work well together for my own concoctions I’m trying to mix up. They are great tools is the way I view the forums.

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WRONG i can make a liquid and I’ll bet any amount of money that it wont get cloned 1 to 1 …

This is true because most people start with Commercial liquid but like me they are rarely satisfied so DIY it is

The pcts and different liquids the additives these thinngs change a recipe by the smallest pct …But yes some companies use proprietary flavors but not many every commercial liquid that has been released to the public has used the same stuff we do.

It is most likely rebottled from one of the major manufacturers

Yes Yes Yes …Make something that has a simialr profile and most likely eventually you will enjoy it more than the Commercial liquid

DIY os probably the smallest sub group of Vaping …It will grow and we will continue these debates

Not the majority…Even most the new mixers are coming to DIY to learn so Govts can’t stop them from Vaping …

That is a great comparison…Its how I feel about Mixing…

Well that depends on weather or not its your hobby , I can get lost in my mixing room and work in a recipe for weeks…When I finally get it how I like it the feeling is exhilarating…

Sounds like your mind is made up …Do you think these companies just whip together a recipe real quick and it good ??? Dude they spend months even up to a year making their crap and ita still meh…

Your losing me the more i read and frustarating me …

I dont know that there is hype about DIY mixing there is a small group of all the Vapors who like to mix and enjoy and also these same people have developed a lot of the Commercial Liquids

Did you ever really start DIY ?? I think the answer is No …You went to a site and tried the top rated recipes from years ago…Your not a Mixer you mixed other people’s liquids , you used sub par ingredients that over time have been reformulated so who knows if your mixing the actual recipes …Take Care be careful because I heard Commercial liqyid is loaded with Sucralose and at those pcta can be harmful bwhahahaha…Im just messing with ya good luck in your journey …When you want to learn we will be around

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For DIY yes but my understanding and from the Commercial mixers i know and from personal experiance its not out of line for Commercial …Crazy Right but 1 to 2 pct is the norm and that is what people who enjoy commercial mixes are getting , the over whelming sweetness that sits on their tounge Yuck …Lmao I do enjoy seeing commercial liquid recipes I have even had the pleasure in helping develope a local line and the owners kept pumping up the sweetener . I personally liked the recipes at .25 to. 5 pct SS …

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I’ve never once mixed anyone else’s recipe and I’ve got two ADVs, plus a cupboard fulla shit I’ve forgotten about as I mentioned in the other thread - granted, but it didn’t take long to find a few mixes I liked when I just mixed shit, tested, added, tasted, until I got something potent enough to be tasty as any commercial juice.

Also granted, I haven’t spat-out anything Vapetasia would be begging to buy off me :smirk: but I’m not trying to create ‘the one juice’ - it’s really not hard to mix good juice.

No more difficult than it is to cook an excellent roast dinner or bolognese: you just keep cooking the meal until it’s right: it just depends how much you want that awesome roast dinner, and I spose if you’re ordering a roast dinner someone else’s made for you every night you’re never gunna learn how .

You’ll never learn to cook while you’re too busy stuffing someone else’s food in you.

I actually think too, if I’d have continued buying commercial liquids and had a couple bottles of Killer Custard or Boss Reserve to vape, I’d probably not have created anything I liked yet either: where’s the motivation to create juice that tastes good when you’re always vaping your favourite commercial liquid?

Think that’s a major factor in how quickly a lot of people find success mixing: when you’ve got no commercial juice because you’ve switched to buying DIY ingredients, you’ve only got what you can mix yourself - you come up with tasty juice real quick when you’ve got no commercial liquids to run back and suckle on.

Like a piglet on it’s mother’s teet.

Everyone here is well past the point of needing to suckle.

As for most people switching to DIY because it’s cheaper than commercials :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: - if I’d bought commercial juices with the thousand+ dollars I’ve already spent on DIY flavours, freebase, salt nic and the endless bottles of glycerine, I’d have a fukin’ decade of commercial liquid in the cupboard.

And I haven’t even started buying the really expensive flavours yet!

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:sunglasses: For one thousand $ you could buy
100$ - 1L of 100mg nic that could last you for years (or forever)
100$ - 20L of VG/PG that would last you for years
600$ - for 300 best-in-class flavors in 10ml bottles
200$ - for big bottle rebuys of those flavors you like/mix the most
(shipping included in these prices)

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Out of all the commercial liquids I tried in the past I found only two that I repurchased. IMO, DIY is the way to go for multiple reasons, especially in our current times with these new restrictions. The more recipes I mix (mine or others) the more I realize my tastes are my own and only I can refine a mix to suit my needs.

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+1 @fidalgo_vapes.

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