@jay210 Thanks a lot for that info. Maybe what I’ll do, in light of that, is do two tests on my SF testers. I don’t know if I’ll be able to STOP myself at 2 weeks, and I only made 10ml testers, but I’m thinking I could do 2 week, an then an extended past 4 week test on them.
2 Likes
sounds great 
I, for one, am interested in the 2 week test, so don’t really want to discourage you. That said, I don’t want the results to discourage you either .
I’ve found a few that seem to reach full maturity at around 3 weeks. Violet (MF) springs to mind, there. That one tastes just like Parma Violet sweets , with no need for added sweetener! (at least not in a 100VG mix). I found it vapable from the word go,TBH, but it had a somewhat harsh edge which rounded off at the three week mark.
3 Likes
Copy that. I know that once my J.O.B. gets crazy, and things get backed up on my to do list, mixing/steeping can be hard to squeeze in, let alone WAITING lol. I can be rather impatient at times, hehe, but I am aware of the long steep / up-steep nature of MF, and will have to change my wicked ways.
3 Likes
What is the long steep effect you mention here?
2 Likes
@atssec97 Some people experienced some flavor fading after long steeps. I did extensive SF testing on most of the RF SC line, but I did not do any extended flavor/mix testing. I have had the opportunity to try some French Toast after 1 year, and although it was slightly different, the flavor was still quite good, so I cannot comment to any fading effect.
4 Likes
I’ve been using orange mf for about a year. 0.6 will be just fine. I’ve pushed orange mf even higher. That’s the beauty of that flavor. Very little harsh notes and other orange notes that other people don’t like.
My struggle is the cream base. Hence the use of orange tpa at 5.5 (which I’ve never used it that high). Sadly. I’m cream deficient…meaning that I don’t taste creams very well. Nothing floats my boat but there is one vendor orange ice cream vape that has a tangy orange with a very nice icecream
@atssec97 the effect regarding real flavors sc…is that I get off notes and the wrong level flavor fading. Some people love rf sc…but for me it just doesn’t blend well when sitting in a mix for 4-6 or 10 weeks (was the last place I stopped trying).
6 Likes
Initial results support that. I will definitely not pronounce yesterday’s results as any sort of final report, since I know it will need a proper steep before true results come in. But I would not have considered any MF as a potential S&V based on what everyone says about them fading out before coming back strong. I do assume this will happen. I just hope it comes back to where it is today. I’m very surprised a recipe like that was a successful S&V.
Sadly, the Orange was just a sample bottle and it’s smurf-sized. I suspect it will be in the cart for the next order soon though.
*Edited fer syntax…
7 Likes
And to re-track the thread… I also received a Raspberry sampler that I’m looking forward to using soon. It is yet another flavor I’ve wanted to incorporate but so far none have been even close to good. Hope to change that with this.
And Dark Chocolate. Looking forward to mixing that sample too…
8 Likes
I’m pretty sure I tested MF orange at 0.5% and 1%…for me, 1% was way too strong, and I distinctly remember that it wouldn’t leave the wick even after 4-6 tanks later (roughly 15ml). Even at half strength (0.5%) it was a really good flavor, but still very prominent, and continued to persist into 2-3 tanks later.
Again, I need to revisit it, and when I do, I’ll probably whip up 3 ‘levels’. 0.2%, 0.3%, and a refresher at 0.5% (just to see how the others fare in comparison).
Definitely agree with there being no harshness or off-notes though!
7 Likes
jay210 is always looking out for me 
ty … lol
3 Likes
I would drop your % even lower. With the MF flavors I have tested it seems there is not a lot of difference between 1 drop per 14 ml and 1%. You can overdo it without much negative consequences but you are just kinda spinning you’re wheels and missing out on some cool things.
Credit @Pro_Vapes who has been saying all along that most of these are best as additives or as I now look at them “bases”. If you take the time to SF test long term your minds eye will quickly recognize what I mean by “bases”.
For example, Mango I cannot taste but has a deep really sweet and pleasant floral note. When you add anything that goes with Mango or another mango it will pop like you won’t believe.
Kiwi, make a 30 ml bottle or whatever @ 2 or 3 drops per 30ml let it sit for 8 weeks then add some strawberry ripe (every one has that right?). I am one who normally cannot taste strawberry yet this gives me an "in your face strawberry " that will make you want to revisit your strawberry recipes.
Wish I had more time cuz there is lots of room for discovery with these!
11 Likes
Having begun a dive into the world of Medicine Flower, I understand what you are saying. I have some thoughts on this, which may be complete horse hockey, or may be rooted in solid ground.
We all know a few things about flavor concentrates… most of them are created chemically. It is chemistry, after all, that accounts for our sense of taste. When molecules contact our tongue, the chemical signature corresponds to a taste that the brain translates. Of course there is more to that, and the sense of smell comes into play, but basically taste is the result of a chemical reaction.
So, naturally, science has found ways to recreate those chemical signatures synthetically We know them as additives. (Nothing new here, I realize that). MF, however, uses only natural extraction to create their flavorings. This is, of course, a different product than lab synthesized flavorings. It is my thoughts, then, that by adding natural flavorings along with the synthetic ones, you get a more rounded product. This accounts for the ‘in your face’, the ‘bright’, the ‘pop’, etc. so commonly referred to with juice descriptions.
So from the perspective of using MF as ‘base’ ingredients, I totally understand why this works. I saw it, immediately, with the orange and lemon added to the TFA Orange Cream. Much more rounded, sweet, natural orangey instantly.
I will definitely be testing MF with recipes I like that don’t call for MF ingredients. I plan to do the ‘drop testing’ because I feel you are correct in saying this will intensify non-MF recipes.
TL;DR- Mixing synthesized concentrates with natural extracts probably makes a recipe a lot more rounded.
9 Likes
Most of what I’ve spent my time on is learning my flavors, and doing SFT’s.
Orange hasn’t been very high on my priority list for several reasons, and I’ve already acknowledged I need to revisit it at a lower percentage. I do appreciate your suggestion towards ‘a few drops’, and I’ll bear it in mind.
But having already done some basic testing, I think I have a pretty fair idea where it’ll fall, for my needs. 
It’s also worth noting that PV himself has previously said that some MF flavors (usually fruits) have to be used in the higher than expected (for MF) percentages. Orange is kind of an exception to this “rule of thumb”, or at least, so it would seem thus far.
It’s also worth noting that I use, and have BEEN recommending butterscotch MF in the drops range.
I would reread some, or perhaps read more of his posts, as well as look at how he uses them in recipes. While he has been playing with dropping his percentages lately (as have a few others)… It’s not hard to notice that he frequently uses MF as the primary flavors (not an additive, or enhancer).
While it’s nice that your trying to say “thank you” to him for being a ‘guiding light’ in your journey, you might also try to remember that everyone has to walk their own path (speaking from experience, and something I sometimes struggle to remind myself of from time to time)!
I’m continually exploring the range of flavors, both in percentages, and in combinations. But my suggestion would be to be careful that you don’t fall into a “side pitfall”, and deprive yourself of learning something new, by being afraid of “blazing your own trail” every once in a while!
While there is a lot of great advice in these hallowed halls, it is still Do It Yourself at the bottom line. 
10 Likes
I am sorry I created so much butt hurt with you! I surely did not mean to. I was merely suggesting more broad spectrum testing… How dare I.
The rest is not about negating the way things are used or done, just another tool in using some of the flavors. Pre steeping a single or multi flavors for a base ( not to be confused as a one shot or flavor base.) and then adding flavors later is nothing new, however some of these bring something extra to the game.
4 Likes
And that’s something I will never forget. Advice is based on personal experience (or perhaps the scum ball know-it-all that regurgitates Google-Fu trying to look smart). Everything needs to be viewed through the proper lens and digested appropriately. The bottom line is also at the end of the day. Excellent point.
5 Likes
Nice Job! Walk in and drop this on us and leave!! I sure hope you plan on adding to this post. Curious minds want to know!! 
I appreciate all of the time and knowledge that all have added to this thread. I keep coming back and re-reading and picking up bits and pieces each time I do!
I finally got a tracking number for my order and can not wait to dive into some SFT’s with these “bases”!!!
6 Likes
@xxanalogxx and @Sprkslfly I read, then re-read many of the above posts just to make sure I was up to speed. Being brand new (almost) with the MFs am already having to RE-learn some of my naughty ways that I learned using NON MF flavors, so you both will probably be butt hurt when I start blowing up some MF’s and start posting confused sad panda posts !!!
I guess my point was, I would hate to see fire in the MF Rec thread, as I’m getting a LOT of good stuff here, and despite some differences in opinions, or debates on “bases” or “additives” I think (I think) we can all agree that pairing MF’s with others can REALLY make for winning combinations.
I hope nobody in this thread gets burned out on my questions as I dive deeper into the MF hole, as I’m already starting to really SEE, what they are about. I avoided them like the plague because of the high price, but finally gave in (I think it was @Pro_Vapes Banana Split that did me in), and started picking up a few. Despite my shortage of free time, and complete and total lack of will power and patience, am indeed steeping the SF’s and a few mixes far longer than normal for me, and about all I can do while waiting, is hang out here, and pick up more intel, which I’m sure will save me money, and precious time.
I’ll be able to chime in more, once I get a better feel for some of these, how they play with others, strengths, and steep times.
11 Likes
I read and re-read the @Sprkslfly and @xxanalogxx exchange and I don’t see where there were direct hits fired until XX’s sarcastic response. Words, words. They can only do so much… can’t convey emotion or intent. I suspect this is a typical misunderstanding and will pass by quickly enough.
About how MF is used primarily… I see @Pro_Vapes’ recipes, and I see that there are some that seem to use MF as that ‘base’ type of additive, and some like CuCuDew that are using them as the headliner stars. So in that respect, it appears that PV is quite wisely using MF to its’ fullest advantage. This is certainly how I intend to approach them. So far I have to admit, I’m enamored with the ones I have tried. And of course, being used in small %% for the most part, the price is somewhat sedated in perspective.
Now, everyone fist bump yourselves, shake it off, and bring on the MF’n love.
8 Likes