I definitely agree that nic has an impact on the flavour. Since I started vaping I have cut down my nicotine content several times starting at 18mg and now at 4mg, and I have tasted a difference every time, even with a relative small step down from 6 to 4mg I could clearly taste a difference.
It isn’t a large difference, like two completely different flavours, but more subtle like a mix that is suppose to have just a drop or two of a certain flavour, but you omitted it for one reason or another. The other flavours might taste a slight bit brighter, but you are still missing something in the mix. At least that is the best way I can describe it.
This is also one of two reasons why I always do my SFT with nicotine, though at 2mg instead of 4.
If you scower the threads there is a zero 0mg thread where i reported my findings and testing rearding 0mg vs Nic e liquids. I proved
(to myself at least, though personally i dont consider testing to be merely anecdotal) that a 0mg Custard is nowhere near the same as a 3mg Custard in both colour and taste. The nic somehow creates a reaction which triggers/accelerates the “steep” process. For myself this change in mixes with nic was far more apparent in flavors that have the potential to age into more complex aromas/tastes ie custards, creams, desserts. With fruits the difference from 0mg to Nic is less noticable.
Yes yes and more yes. Again i have pointed this out only to get differing opinions as rebuttals. Thank you for this comment. Preach! Lol
Edit: my ultimate goal is to get to zero mg but would need two things to happen to ultimately and satisfactorily achieve this goal.
A throat hit additive? (thinking this has to exist but havent bothered looking as problem 2 needs to solved first)
“Steep” (flavor maturation, development) to occur in the same way as it does with complex flavors (custards etc) with nic in a zero mg
Thinking an additive could work here as well as we discussed (zero mg thread) that alkalinity could play a factor here
My most recent idea is a benzoic acid additive solution (no nic) if it works in salts it may just solve both issues simultaneously
I mainly vape tobacco and I must say that the nicotine is adding to the tobacco effect.
I’ve been on 3mg/ml for quite some time but I’ve upped it to 4 when my dog died because I was stressed and kept it at that level because I like it better.
I do enjoy a throat hit and even a little pepper, for me it just spices up the tobacco
I can imagine that it doesn’t play well with fruit. Imagine is the right word here because fruit and vape doesn’t play well with me
This is not calling you or anyone out as this was how I spelled it until I finally googled it for myself…
The palate is (1) the roof of the mouth, and (2) the sense of taste, and it’s also a fancy word for flavor, especially in writing on food wine.
A palette is the board painters use to hold and mix their colors. By extension, it sometimes denotes the range of colors used in a design or work of art.
When I mix a new recipe I usually make 15ml @ 2.5mg. I’ve been using Nic Salt from LNW exclusively for the past 8 months. If I like the new recipe I’ll then mix up usually 60ml at 4 - 4.5mg for my daily squonking. I’ve noticed that many times, once I raise the nic the flavor isn’t as strong or vibrant. I use mostly fruit juices which can be bright and pop with flavor.
It’s perhaps the equivalent of going from 10 to 8 so I just deal with it. If I had more free time I’d experiment, but honestly, I can’t be bothered to do so.
Damn, you are absotively correct! It seems that sometimes when you’re just trying to get your thoughts onto the printed page you tend to do many typos that you know are wrong. I probably should have taken a brake while typing this up.
For me it goes even beyond that, although that is still certainly the case. It was definitely more pronounced when I was new to vaping since it completely changed the flavor I was using at the time and now is more of a not quite right thing, but it definitely has a missing taste aspect to me. Reminds me of some of those flavors that occasionally get marketed where they describe the flavors similar to bottled sunshine and rainbows or similarly indescribable ‘flavor’ attributes.
Yes, and to that end I have had mixes that I realized that I had neglected to add nicotine to simply due to the lack of color after steeping for a while. I will check into your earlier post - I had not considered that search topic so I will catch up as soon as I can, thank you @mixologist13.
I mix my SFTs with nicotine as well, and typically keep them around. I use small 15ml glass bottles with phenolic caps and when I need a reminder of the attributes of a specific flavor I will drip a bit of these little single flavors to remind myself. I usually refresh them if they age longer than 6 months before I get around to needing them again, but as you mentioned in your post, I also originally started testing out various ingredients without nicotine, and in pure PG for that matter, and I found that both affected the ultimate flavor and certain less identifiable characteristics of the resulting mix.
My own experience (the only one I can speak to, I suppose)… When I started vaping as a newbie, that peppery note was just about the first thing I noticed once I got used to happy tasting flavors compared to gross cigarettes. I didn’t like it. I started at 6mg nic as recommended by the guy I got my starter kit from. And I got that peppery taste from vendor juices because that’s all I used, I had not gone into DIY yet. Eventually I cut back to 3mg, but still noticed the peppery note albeit less.
When I started DIY, I still got that peppery note. I am not a fan of that. So, I tried an “Ultra Premium” nic, and that peppery note had gone for me. I was happy but I still got the famous nic throat harshness (not related to the thread, I know). Then, I switched to salt, and now there’s zero flavor effect as well as zero harshness. So to me now, it’s like I don’t even have it in there, yet I do. If that makes sense.
I don’t want you to think I was calling you out. Like I said I have done it several times myself and so have several other people. I was just correcting it for the record and hopefully others will see the correct spelling. believe me I have misspelled several words quite often. And I really can’t speak to anyone about using the proper grammar.
I’ve considered trying out the NS. I’ve not worked with it but from what I understand it contributes literally NOTHING to the flavor, so I imagine my favorite liquids would probably require some tweaking… (Okay, overhaul is probably a more suitable verb. )
No worries, I do that stuff on occasion, like typing ‘to’ when it should be ‘too’ or ‘breath’ instead of ‘breathe.’ Doesn’t mean we don’t know how to spell or how to convey messages properly, just that the English language is the most effective word-making machine in history and occasionally even native speakers like us mess up!
I don’t generally pop in on threads like this, but it occurred to me maybe it might be a contribution to toss out the perspective of a someone like myself that is a non-synth, tobacco NET only vaper.
The bottom line is that I feel that nicotine has an important impact on flavor profiles of NETs if the goal is to reproduce a real tobacco experience. If fact I would go so far as to say that it is essential.
I tested several suppliers and finally landed on the product from NicVape as the best of class. Very pure, lab traceable, crystal clear, supplied in glass, a very high quality almost reagent grade product. I thought enough of it to commit to a quantity of it for long term storage in the freezer.
Nicvape is not much discussed or mentioned here in ELR, but they have a broad product line of very high quality items . See @JoJo excellent reviews here:
It’s been a LONG time since I have worked with NETs, but given my love of true tobacco flavors, I have considered investigating what is available to the modern vape enthusiast (nic-addict.)
OMG! Thank you! I was trying to figure out a way to say that very thing without sounding like an ass hat. Nicely done and now my weird Proper English fetish is all better. Thanks again.
@PAFLICK and anyone else who cares. I use a program? It’s called grammarly, it helps you with spelling and punctuation. It helps me cut down on how long it takes me to write. Now I don’t have to constantly check my spelling and punctuation. In other words, it helps my weird Proper English thing.
At first I thought nicotine needed to be masked by adding a wee bit more flavor the higher the nicotine level of the juice. after several experiments I think it is more to do with the steeping process but still I think there is something to do with it.
I had to convert it to a formula and came up with an adjustment I use.
IF a reduction or increase in nicotine seems to affect the flavor of the juice i adjust the TF (total flavor) of the liquid by +0.33% for each +6mg nicotine strength increase.
I also believe this is leading to differences of opinion in the SF% levels in the flavor database because many are mixing for a dripper at low nic levels, therefore low flavor levels, while I vape in a tank and I love nicotine.
my 2¢
I vape on RDAs exclusively and agree the lower level of nic usually associated with a dripper will make a slight difference in flavor perception, i do however feel other factors play a larger role ie more efficient wicking , better airflow, better position of airflow, smaller chambers, height of chamber, type of coil, type of metal…All of these reasons are imo bigger factors and also why a tank vapor may scoff at a flavor description/review that describes the full intracacies of a flavor as tanks cannot deliver this same full experience (IMO disclaimer) lol
I used to mix all 18mg and noticed the higher the total % of flavor the faster oxidization would occur. This was decieving as i stored all my liquids in lpde plastic and only after switching to PET did i discover LDPE was in fact the culprit. LDPE is far too permeable and imo interacts with the flavors more, leading to dark “tainted” oxidized juices in the long run. I now believe proper storage is a more important factor than total flavor % or nicotine content. I therefore never mix with total flavor % in mind but instead mix with desired profile in mind.
PET is not perfect, still slightly permeable and potential for flavor interaction but i think the dropper bulbs currently used in glass bottles create similiar problems. Flavorah is therefore on to something with their glass bottle/plastic top hybrid bottles that could sort these issues out if perfected.
If there is a difference in taste or if it is psychological, I do not know, but I discarded adding nicotine after the maturation time because I feel a different result … that is test recipes, or a large batch, I always add the nic to the same long as the flavors.
Interesting topic to say the least, but I agree with the difference in tanks vs rda vs mtl. I have recipes that are specifically for my MTL set ups and any and all of my fruit recipes are for tanks. More for RTA’s than sub-ohm.
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No worries, I do that stuff on occasion, like typing ‘to’ when it should be ‘too’ or ‘breath’ instead of ‘breathe.’ Doesn’t mean we don’t know how to spell or how to convey messages properly, just that the English language is the most effective word-making machine in history and occasionally even native speakers like us mess up!
