I hope a noob doesn’t ever browse this thread and say “Holy Moses, vape juice has antifreeze in it!?!” 
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Deep breath…I normally do not post , I enjoy the reading .This however needs opposition / critique …call it what you will. Constructive criticism is acceptable but only when an idea is presented.?. This thread is constructed of unopposed opinion being accepted as fact. The idea was using substitutes to PG , OK. Instead it completely demonizes PG all together. I am vaping 8 yrs , long ago when we thought silica was it and thank god it wasn’t .I’ve come across a few people since then that would go on to critique and complain to the point you stare at them like a dear in headlights and the only response was “just don’t vape”, The same people that would complain about their 1.5 mg of nic not being completely accurate (like taking half an ibuprofen for a migraine). Lets not all forget we are here for the lesser of two evils .A few years ago the only argument we had was the “safer” percentage to argue over the burning of tobacco, but the proof is in the “vaper”. I’m pretty sure no one will argue that the safest thing for our lungs is OXYGEN. Posting things like “passing out” from PG is absolute lunacy and should be held with no credit ( kinda feel like my knuckles are drying out…) So as for the Pseudoscience that exists in this thread consider this. Any and all scents that you smell are indeed complete and intact structured molecules which means they are real and do exist and I dare you to escape PG being inhaled in some form vaping or not. Considering the wide uses of PG from food , cosmetics ,medicine/ vaccines and industrial applications and whatever else we Do Not know about. Iced Tea mix…You know that dust cloud that occurs when you drop the powder in the container , You smell that? There are traces of PG in the flavor molecules you just inhaled , OR the powder make up that gets slapped around your face. Point is, we are (Almost all of us) so lazy or could care less about the day to day chemicals we are bombarded with. What I do KNOW is I smoked for 16 yrs as did my wife. My smokers cough was so bad that I would have to pull my car over to stop coughing and wait for the light to come back into my eyes. That is gone. Thank you Vaping. So rapping up this rant I’ll say this.NONE of the ingredients we have are designed and manufactured for “vaping”.All of our gear and eliquid is only as safe as the user.PG IS NOT ANTIFREEZE it is an ingredient/component of(https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/56/56c92110-bc8b-48e3-91ee-54df5e792462.pdf ).Running water also doesn’t freeze ,what do you call that?WE also KNOW that most of us buy PG with the highest purity, the version of PG in RV antifreeze is of the lowest quality and safety standards. If you find alternatives or safer methods by all means we would like to know , if your here to spread misinformation based loosely on opinion, Albeit wildly exaggerated, keep it to yourself, it does nothing to further the knowledge base.
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Using ‘antifreeze’ and vaping in the same sentence is dangerous, disingenuous, and does vaping a huge disservice. Having threads that exist with such information gives ammunition to the anti-vape propaganda machines as well, because they can quote them (true or not). It’s just wrong on so many levels. Which was my point.
Calling PG ‘antifreeze’ because it is used as an ingredient is akin to calling PG ‘Reese’s chocolate’ or ‘lipstick’ because it’s also used as an ingredient in those things too. Not fair, and not an accurate assessment. So, you maybe have a person looking to learn about vaping and gets a Google-Fu search result that leads them here, and they read that vape juice has antifreeze in it. Ugly! Just sayin’.
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I completely agree and in No way was i referring to you , in fact i liked your post before i chimed in.
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We all know that they wouldn’t say that - they would say ‘Reese’s chocolate’ & lipstick contains anti freeze. 
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It is quite scary when the coughing fits happened in the car. You feel like your literally fixing to pass out, see stars, and guess what, no shoulder! Been there done that. I really love the term Harm REDUCTION. While 80/20 mixes are easier on my chest when chain vaping, 70/30 must be in my rotation. That tea cloud you spoke of, ya powdered tea is just yucky IMHO. Powa to the people tho lol.
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Anyone’s decision to try and eliminate PG is their own. The “anti-freeze” dialog is derailing and has zero to do with my foray into this fringe. I haven’t used PG as an additive for about 18 months. I’m not against PG. I may go back to using PG. Meanwhile I have been testing this Water+Vodka method for several reasons. My intention with this post is to bring this discussion back on track as I have some results.
The main reason, and it is listed above, is the evidence major Commercial e-Juice manufacturers are listing Distilled Water and Ethanol on the labels as ingredients. I believe that makes this idea not-so-fringe, so not a baseless investigation, and that is how I would describe my own current Journey …an investigation. Allow me to share my framework to help analyse and describe possible goals and protocols mixing with DW (water) and Vodka (100 Proof).
First I have zero intention of eliminating PG 100%. PG is in the flavors I use …let’s call it Free-PG. I just don’t add any PG. For about a year I switched to PDO for similar reasons …until I used it all up. It wasn’t bad, it just wasn’t BETTER …and it may have not been as good as PG flavor-wise (muted some flavors) …but that’s another thread.
My outlier goal is to discover something better. The simplest description of why I would be interested in adding DW/Vodka is that mixing true Max VG delivers a product that’s too thick for anything other than an RDA (dripper), and I am more of an RDTA kinda dude/
Viscosity not only affects the ability for your e-liquid to flow in your wicked atomizer, it also affects the Rate reaction we call “Steeping”. My non-data based (visual!) assumption is the water and alcohol lower the viscosity of the final mix allowing to effectively blend (however you decide is best) and possibly react more quickly (faster steep times).
There was a post online re: the Maillard Reaction being sped up by adding alkaline baking soda to some sauteing onions …they browned much faster. Conclusion: pH affects Steeping. Vodka (ethanol) is alkaline and you could even use alkaline water (Pentine Water). My hypothesis was Vodka might speed steeping …worthy of some testing and adopting this concept. Even if I go back to PG 70/30 I will likely still add 1-2% Vodka. Ok I am probably about to buy some PG 
My mixing protocols are solely based on what’s easy and fast. I use a little frother in a beaker and degass in a hot-tap-water Ultrasonic cleaner. The only “off gassing” and heating happen in the 5+ minutes it takes to blend and then drive off any air bubbles (USC) made during blending …then right into tightly sealed brown glass. I assume much of the ethanol stays in the mix, and I am focused on affecting steepage. I have never tasted any alcohol or chemical by-products.
Eliminating PG? Again PG and I are not enemies. If you desire to eliminate all PG in your e-liquid …cool. PG is commonly described as a flavor “carrier”. I am starting to believe that also means a flavor “transporter”. By that I mean it serves to enhance delivery of flavorings to your taste buds and olfactory senses (nose buds). Good or bad I think PG may make e-juice taste better to the majority of folks. I do however listen to the people who describe their own personal bad reactions to vaperized/inhaled PG or personal Health opinions re: inhaling a Petroleum product.
Using water and vodka instead of PG has not delivered a better juice, and my Year+ long dive into PDO and DW+Alc has only succeeded in me not being able to share any recipes …nobody (or few) are even trying this. Again, it’s not bad, it’s just not better. There are other threads here on ELR re: PG Free Recipes. Those are probably better topics to read than this one if eliminating PG is your aim.
I think a more important strategy for me would be finding consistency (shareability!). For Commercial e-Juice companies adding water and alcohol (?) might just help their blending process and definitely would help cutting costs. If you are trying to eliminate PG, this definitely works to get a properly viscous final product, which steeps well.
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Thanks for your summary of that whole experience BoDarc! I can’t say dw improved my mixes the very few times I’ve tried it, if anything it felt harder on my lungs and made the flavor taste… distant, like I was licking it through a plastic bag. Haven’t tried any alcohol though, finding hard to even find high content isopropyl anymore (yes I know, rubbing alcohol is not the hol I’m looking for, here).
Just a thought (and maybe it’s out there) but in the deep recesses of long past classes I vaguely remember using alcohols to halt some organic reactions (or neutralize a weak base), and H2O to provide hydrogen and oxygen in other stronger ones. Perhaps the goal with the commercial manufacturers in using these ingredients is to stabilize the mixture at a certain step? I know I’ve had a few that are only good at 2-3 weeks (or some arbitrary window), before then it’s chemical and after it falls flat.
There is definitely enough money in the commercial side now, I don’t see why they wouldn’t employ chemists like the perfume industry does - for both formulating new flavors that aren’t available from concentrate vendors and applying existing concentrates in a more methodical way than… “lets mix these and taste it a few times”.
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Very smart guys and gals in here, I feel the love and glad to call you all my friends, I am going to lower my pg content, I only use it to taste my flavors. So thinks for the info, some of it is above me, but I will adapt and overcome. Can we all just have a Group hug.
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I’ve been down south avoiding winter. I’m great!
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No science for me, just easier on the lungs. It makes sense water is safer than PG, sorry. It cost 2.00 to try it.
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I’ll be heading down to Key West later on this month! I can’t wait to get out of this ice and cold weather!
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Oh and Yeah …I saved alot of money! …so special shoutouts to the @Maureeenie
Well said. We DIY folks are mostly denied access to any real equipment for scientific analysis, and surely “stability” may be the main goal in a commercial juice recipe. How they “get there”, and how we do, is comparing Chemistry to Alchemy …Ok I gotta go now, my next project is turning TL:DR into Gold 
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Great! Enjoy, Enjoy! I’m not that far south, I’m on the Nature Coast. RV’s are a pain to get all the way down there, you lose a whole day getting all the way down and then a day getting back home. Next year I may go to the Sarasota area or possibly Melbourne. This winter was a very bad benchmark for reality here because there have been so many cold fronts from Canada dipping down here. I’ve had 7-8 nights I had to pull the hoses and heat the storage area to keep lines from freezing. That’s not normal for here (if there is a normal anymore)
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Yeppers it works 
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Gonna try that and my thoughts below about premixing with the same recipe 3 different ways.
My thoughts are, and I keep thinking this over and over that the high viscosity of the extra pg and vg inhibit binding and blending of the flavors like they would otherwise blend if mixed before hand and left to steep alone by themselves without any vg bulk ingredient being added. Then after a week of the flavors bleding by themselvess, breath off the PGA (pure grain alchol) then add to your VG. It only makes sense to combime and steep the low viscosity materials first then add them pre-blended like a 1 shot. Simular to Sautéing veggies seperate before adding to the bulk main dish. Im sure the very high viscosity of the VG doesnt help in the blending department for receipes.
vis·cos·i·ty
noun: viscosity
the state of being thick, sticky, and semifluid in consistency, due to internal friction.synonyms: thickness, gooeyness, viscidity; More consistency, texture a quantity expressing the magnitude of internal friction, as measured by the force per unit area resisting a flow in which parallel layers unit distance apart have unit speed relative to one another.
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I followed this thread for a while but haven’t tried the DW and Vodka. I am curious to know if you get a bangen throat hit?
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I just noticed this thread. Not trying to reduce PG usage but curious if anyone finds PGA or alcohol in general is a better ‘flavor carrier’ then PG?
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I haven’t a/b tested this, so I don’t really know anything. But, it does seem that you will still need to steep the one shot into your base, which takes time, and in that time, the new molecular changes in flavor should have plenty of time to work things out.
I think what you are doing by making a one shot and letting it sit for a week could be considered more like blending the concentrates, then the steeping is when you add it to your base and allow time for that to become homogenized. (We know it’s not really steeping, like tea, it’s just become the acceptable term)
I’d like to read your results if you test this theory out.
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So the steeping of the one shot is to keep the volatiles in while breathing out the alcohol?
I wonder if that could work. Please post your test result.
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