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What total flavor % is enuff?

I always make efforts to choose recipes that have a <15% flavor % because I think it’s a healthier choice to vape less flavorings in general. However some of the top favorites over the last several years (and mighty tasty) are over 20% like Bust-A-Nut or even higher …the infamous Mother’s Unicorn Milk which is 26% flavoring (still an ADV fav of mine)


Higher % recipes also consume so much more high-dollar resources …also something that factors into my mixing schedule choices …cost and inventory.

I’m sure the Medicine Flower costs even out when you calculate how much Strawberry Ripe TPA goes into that 240ml bottle of Unicorn Milk (BTW about 25 grams). It’s a flavor thing but it’s also a money thing for me. I get your point of how difficult it would be to get micro% right with Super Concentrates in the testing/creation phase, but once you work around that (dilutions?) it’s probably saving money and making better juice.

Even diluted I am hearing it’s less forgiving as far as hitting a recipe’s balance with SCs. I may be wrong. If the MF, for example, is “truer” (extracts?) maybe it allows the bumping up of say a Strawberry to be a little more in your face without killing your taster or overturning the whole profile of a recipe. Is true?

It is probably a mistaken conceptualization (“extracts” are not the same as synthesized chemical flavs) and that thought you’re adding more pure flavor and not just more chemicals. It may be more true that it’s just how much “chemical” % can be supported by whatever base is in question (VG? Food?)

Unsure how “natural” a MF “extract” would compare with the synthesized (not natural?) FA/TPA/FW, but likely a reason the Old-school Flavor Giants make it the same old way, it’s easier to not relearn an established skill (Culinary). This forum may be one of the deepest dives into these new approaches to a historied business …beyond e-juice DIY. I wonder how many Chef’s drop in here and read “MF Tasting Notes”?

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Well that’s where I’m at. I even fooled myself about some things I’ve been doing. I’m on a new path and the results I’m getting right now is a truer tasting mix IMO.

I’ve hardly been able to learn the basics with TPA, CAP and FW only. I applaud those that mastered these flavors. I just don’t taste several of them or they are just to far from what is intended for that particular flavor IMO. I try to work with accurate flavors… it was just necessary for me to even taste most mixes.

Look at this… If it works it’ll most likely end up a Stone/Flavor Base. Just don’t tell @Chrispdx.

A completed mix @ .6%…

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This is the kind of recipe, from a Profit perspective, you would think Commercial Juice companies would jump on. It’s a new world popping with multiple SC/Natural/Vegan flavoring Companies and the field is wide open with possibilities. What’s a 55gal drum of Orange (MF) going for these days :wink: …heck, you would only need a gallon!

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For us mortals a 15ml bottle will do… I’m still on my 1st bottle… minus my gifted sampler.

This is all new to me so I don’t have a exit plan, but it’s been working out so far.

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this is low %, I just wanted to see if this was vapable, while it is vapable and tasty, but I do like to taste my juice. the next one I mix will be FLV cherimoya 1.00% , FLV alpine s.b. .10%, FLV smooth vanilla .04%

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In all honesty I haven’t tried any of SmokyBs recipes, although I agree with her concept of super low mixing %s for highly concentrated flavors. I’m still learning this technique and it might be a while before I get to FLV only mixes. I just have so much to undo/redo. My main focus for the past couple years has been MF Extracts and her thoughts has shed new light for me.

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This has nothing to do with MF because I don’t own any lol.

But even I are trying to reduce flavor percentage, which currently is a act in itself, especially if using different brands.

While I still use my cap, fw, tfa, fa, diyfs etc. till they are empty, but I most likely won’t repurchase them. My first go to is mostly WF followed by VTA and then flv (because I don’t own a lot flv yet).

And this is becoming more frustrating then actually enjoyable. While I can taste a lot of flavors way lower, trying to blend that stuff is nearly impossible.

Some of my recipes are as low as 3-6%, I’m proud of that, considering that none of them are super concentrate except flv. and didn’t even use them in those.

This topic is interesting to me, because sticking with one brand, I personally thought would be easier. I was planning of switching fully to flv, but I’m not sure if their full line is true to label.

I’m not even looking for easier, I’m just trying to get better quality, or if I want a cookie, not having to layer 35 flavors, and not even getting close, because none of the base flavors are authentic.

Of course I would like to experience a recipe with 5-8 flavors, that only total 1-2%. I would have to restock less lol. But it looks like, going by your experience, that this could become a even bigger struggle in itself.

Thanks for sharing that information, at least I have some more to think about.

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Is this really the case? Aren’t those weaker flavors just the same amount of flavor molecules diluted in a lot more PG?

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I really appreciate this read, I’ve been trying to lower my % use, especially moving from a tank setup (w/ prebuilt coils), to rta’s and rda’s. Now with the mesh coils marching in, the difference is getting narrowed down.

Most people, including myself, start out with and continue using flavours from CAP, TPA, FW, FA and INW. While the two latter can be very concentrated in some aromas, the variation in concentration can differ greatly.

My current setup plays a larger role in how I taste my juices and how I decide my % in them. That being said, I have some friends who still to this day use their Smok VCT Pro tank. Versus my mech with a dripper on top. Which again puts another question forward, who are you mixing for?

Admittedly I’ve been keeping a keen eye on your posts about any MF concentrates, and others moving into the world of super concentrate mixing. It’s straight out baffling how a mix can contain 0.6% aroma and be tasty.

Then again, what eStorm points out, there are % to be shaved all over the board, no matter the aroma brand.

Some aromas are what I would call bullies, they overrun other aromas in the blink of a drop or three. This got very real, especially when dipping my toes into the world of flavorah. I started debating myself why I would put so many aromas into one single juice, where the attempt at layering turned into muting out 1/3rd of the flavours in the juice. So, would the shaving of % equal just cutting aromas? Well yes and no. I also belive that palette plays a huge role in deciding %, just think like a cook. Some flavour compliment others and some flavour just destroy others.

I dont believe in mixing for a certain setup, while it can be a very real challenge. The hardest part for me, is the balance for the juice I want to make. Doing SFT alone can in no way be the true “test” to know if aroma X and aroma Y play ball together.

Ok, this rambling got out of hand, and I do apologize for this wall of text. My mind goes wild thinking about everything you should or should not concider when exploring the craft of e-juice mixing.

Keep up the good work at the frontiers of lowering the %, I know at least I enjoy reading the notes and findings :smiley: :+1:

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Alpine Strawberry. My tongue is STILL in recovery!

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Lol. Yes. Flavor base.

So to answer the question in the topic line…the percentage of flavor used is determined by the mixer to give the best overall vape experinace for their end goal.

Their end goal wraps up the phrase everyone hates…taste is subjective. But yes I said it. I have tried a few ADV’s from a few folks (not mentioned) where their recpie was close in concept to mixes I love that I invested in flavorings to only be let down. Did I reach out to them? No, I trust those two people a lot…but their mix didn’t meant my end goal.

The end goal is to mix a shit ton of 15-30ml bottles on a regular basis and enjoy them 4-6 weeks later without ever touching them. That said, although some say flavors “up steep” over time which may be true but flavors fade in time as well. They are also adversely impacted (positive and negative) over the steep time.

So do I care about ultra low or ultra high perecents…no. What I care about is the difference (now we are going orange here) between using 0.15% orange mf and 0.5% or even 0.75% when mixed with an ice cream for example. I care about how that one tang’y note is at the top sits along with an orange base and when you close your eyes can taste a wedge of vanilla icecream.

Sure…I can throw a few flavors together and call it day…and they will be really good. But what I care about is the vape experience at the end of my goals.

What are my goals?

Mix only once every two to three weeks. And if needed, not mix for a month.

Never to get board with my vape drawer (have you seen my pics of my vape drawer…not a high volumn in liquid but today it should be close to 50 different recipies…and almost never need to dump unless it’s a true ‘let’s screw this up on purpose to see what happens). By having this many recpies inhibits development of a final recpie to post. However, it’s always Christmas when I open that drawer for close to three years.

Too have a vape very full on flavor. Some would say vape shop quality…but it’s the easiest statement. But yeah…I don’t want a tastey whispy vape…I want it all over and lingering. This is also why when I post a mix in a thread I say how it can be cut down.

Next up…cream deficient. I can’t taste creams (at least, not very well) and I don’t really perceive them. What the fuck is strawberry’s and cream. I’ve tried milky undertone, fresh cream, Vienna cream, whipped cream fa (this was in my first order back in 2015), cream flv, sweet cream flv, seeet cream do tpa, and a few other in low middle and high percents. Nope…shit ain’t going to happen (no need to send me 20 recpies saying this is great…been working this issue for three years). So the goal is to balance the cream components to the others because I know without it the experience will be just shit. I found that balance because if I focus very fricken hard I can taste it…but it’s no fun to focus that hard.

Lastly…I want my experience on a recpie to be the same at 4-6 week mark to the 8-10. Generally they (custards are diffferent). For me a 2day, 7day, 2 week, and 4 week are slightly different or greatly different. I know…people say this a a great SnV and it will be good down the road? Really? Ok maybe for some…but for me, it isn’t. Although I can’t taste creams I taste everything else really really well. One drop of fa pepermint or cinnamon in a 30 ml steeped for 6 weeks is still there. 0.25 fa mallow…I cant still taste one grain of mallow.

And if someone thought they rambeled. Lol. I’m :prince:

So to some it up. Use the right amount of flavoring in the given situation to give YOU the best vape experience ever…every single time. Don’t give two shits when someone says your too high (and the mix tastes really good to you), too low, or discount the second flavor preak when there is one sticky candy note in lime flv. Lol But doooo take note when some posts an orange cucumber recpie two seconds finished mixing with ultra low notes and smile a bit…and say…somewhere in my drawer is a cucumber frape mix I want to try. Dooo learn from people and not take a hoity toity attitude when someone posts something different.

I’m not going to edit this. (Well maybe later). So there will be a ton of grammar and thumbing issues above.

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All i could say is that im very jealous that you guys/gals are able to mix right now , i cant wait to get back to it . Ive only been able to vape 3 juices in the last month bc i mixed big batches b4 the big move . I have been able to use less flavoring in the last year , 15 pct used to be my max goal and than my totals went below 10pct one has less than 3 and the taste is as strong as anything ive ever tasted or made , i also think eliminating things like sucralose / em as sweeteners has lowered many mixers flavor percentages and improved the quality of recipes. anyway im going back to the drawing board when i could mix again , i wont ever completely eliminate TPA , FW or Cap because there are some great flavors that i cant see being replaced and those flavors require a higher percentage , one last thing @Chrispdx please if you ever mix something of mine and find its lacking something let me know , i only try to post things i feel people will enjoy or could turn into something they like by adding a flavor or something lol anyway i just woke up and the new houses water tank is out i think ugh…

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I’ve looked back over recipes, and I’ve noticed I stay between 9-11% for heavier custard mixes. Alot of my private mixes are about 4-6% for the oddball ones only I could love. I have a Lemongrass Shortbread Cookie at 6%. There are certain flavors that I definitely think retain their realism when used lower.

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i did not see this question , but to answer this question directly , i settle on a total percentage through notes and SFT also other peoples notes , the last couple months ive been watching Diy or die and fresh 03 , they have alot of insight and different ways of doing things but holy moly some of their flavor percentages are crazy high lol …

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Total flavor percentage is never really a concern for me, as long as the end result is delicious lol. Sometimes I feel like my taste buds are screwy, there are some flavors, like rf sc cookies and cream, that lots of people use at 2.5-3%, but I can vape it solo at 1.5%, and then there are flavors like fw blueberry that I see most people use at 4% or less in recipes but I can barely taste it below 6-8%. I like finished juice to be rich with flavor, where it lingers in your mouth after the exhale, which probably explains my love for custards, the flavor is heavy and rich. I have read every thread on mf flavors on this forum, and I find them fascinating, but I’m curious about what @anon28032772 suggested, that the actual flavor molecule % is the same in the end recipe, but fw or tfa is more diluted than mf or inw. Either way, my goal is a flavor saturated vape and I have recipes that achieve that at 3% total flavor, and some that take 16-20% total flavor to achieve the same thing, I just quit thinking about it a while ago lol.

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In a round about… I do not settle for any sort of rate of total flavoring. I do let things fall naturally according to my tongue and device I use.

I lean on this repeatedly: solo taste testing: from the lowest (1-2 bottle drops in 10ml) and then work up my drops… take a lot of notes on each flavor from where I first taste it… just a glimmer of taste, make a note on where and how much for that to happen. Next, I move up to where I can fully taste it, make yet another note where. Last, I will look at my lowest and where I can taste it, and bump it up even higher, and yes… take a note there, on taste texture and my thoughts on the total flavor… This is how I can tell in a recipe, if there is a certain flavor going “wonky” and can adjust it easily. All it takes is 1 drop to change a flavor profile.

My site is full of my notes… some do need updating, as devices and body/tastes change… I have not had the time to update. I might have skipped a few flavors. I also go back and spot check certain flavors or all of them, every so often.

This is how I create my recipes, by using my own tongue, notes and thoughts. I won’t say this is what we all are supposed to be doing, but it is how I teach others to mix. This does work for any flavor manufacture, not just for Flavorah.

A dear friend of mine did a series of videos, using flavorah and here are the links:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Albeit, I do not use a frother, stirrer or much of anything else… Christian did take me serious and it shows in the vids he has done… Hope you all have fun watching them. Leave a comment or like if you guys would be so kind. :slight_smile: I would appreciate that.

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I really liked this series and think they’re full of useful information. The only thing is that this technique only works for flavors that have are pretty much shake and vape certified. How do you go about this with upsteepers like medecin flower for example?
You’ll need a lot of different bottles (each with a different amount of drops) and a lot of time to get a fairly good idea of what the flavors are like. Or if there are any other techniques you guys use, I’d be happy to hear about them.

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I find myself rather attracted to low percentage recipes and often cut percentages heavily.
Take Catalan Cream (FA), I can taste it a lot more with my equipment under 1% than at the commonly seen 1.5/2%
Amusingly enough, the only time I felt the caramel part of it clearly was at 0.2% in the Polar Bear Nutz recipe I whip out whenever I want to talk about small percentages ( not mine, and probably the better for it)

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Christian did an excellent job! :slight_smile:

However, as you saw in the vids, flv doesn’t really need a long steep, by day 3-5, they are pretty much what I term “locked in” and wont change much after that time period. Even the custards and tobaccos.

I can not answer on MF or other concentrates, altho I do use ultras from my lab where I work and have the same results.

I have a set of glass 10ml bottles I use, I sterilize them a lot. I have put the time in with flavorah, because to me, it is worth it. Your flavors should be an investment, something to be proud of and you should be able to enjoy good tastes. What I have shared here is the only way I flavor test solo flavorings for recipes.

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