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Let's Talk About Safe (and handy) Nicotine Handling and Storage


#1

Hi All!

Over the years this has been discussed in a few threads and I have consulted with several people via chat looking for the best way to store and handle their nicotine.

The reason this is an important topic to me is I know multiple people, experienced mixers, that have been exposed to concentrated nicotine and I’d really like for folks to consider what they are doing when handling 72+mg/ml nicotine. I use that threshold only because it is common. I do not mean to imply that, say 50mg/ml nicotine, is not also pretty dang poisonous.

First recommendation: Do not mix with concentrated nic like 72mg. When you are making even a large batch most folks would need pretty accurate measurements to safely titrate that 72mg/ml nic into, for instance, 4mg juice. Further, if you need to warm your nic due to it having a high VG concentration and therefore being difficult to draw into a syringe while cold, this means you are temperature cycling your nic, which will result in the accumulation of water due to condensation. Water accelerates nic oxidization in the same way it makes steel rust faster. If you are leaving concentrated nic “out,” that is just plain dangerous to anyone else in your home or your pets. It’s also 100% unnecessary.

My primary concern here is simply the mathematics of probability. With every mix, you are risking spilling it on yourself or elsewhere. If you wear gloves, as you should, that is great. . .but if you spill it, how exactly are you going to clean it off your flooring, carpet or otherwise, to the extent that you a CERTAIN that a loved one wont be exposed to it in the future? In any event, the more times you do something the more likely you are to make an error. An error with 25mg is (at bare minimum) 4x less serious than 100mg. Multiply that increased risk by everyone that mixes and some people are going to get hurt. It is just way too easy and still convenient to work with diluted nic than to take the extra risk of not doing so.

If you do spill concentrated nic on yourself, it is absolutely imperative that you strip your clothing and take a COLD, not warm, and sure as hell NOT a hot shower for 15 minutes IMMEDIATELY. If someone else is around, they need to call poison control while you are showering. If you are alone, keep your phone close by. If you feel any effects, you need to go to the ER. This is not a joke, you can be seriously injured. Members of this forum have done all the above and still ended up in the hospital for several days. I repeat, regularly handling nic at high concentrations is unnecessary, dangerous, and just plain irresponsible.

For storage, a non-self-defrosting freezer is preferred. The colder the better. If you do use a regular freezer, try to keep the nic in the middle of a shelf and away from the vents so it is less exposed to the warmer temperatures of the defrost cycle. Keep it away from your food! It’s freaking poison! I store my 100mg in a regular freezer that is not often opened. I buy PG nic, which means I can work with it while cold. When I do handle 100mg, it is about once a year when I dilute it down to 25mg by adding VG. If you buy 100mg in PG base, you can add 3x as much VG to arrive at a 25mg/ml 25%PG/75%VG nic solution. This I also keep in a freezer. It is just barely thin enough to use while cold. I mix all my juice at 0mg and mix up a 30ml batch of 1-4mg (depending on the gear I am vaping with and what I want from the vape) about once a week by adding in a few ml of my 25mg/ml diluted nic. In your preferences for the calculator, it is the diluted (25mg/ml in my case) that should be used as the nic base concentration.

Store your nic in glass. We all know nic is expensive, so dont let it go bad. But remember, glass will shatter if dropped on hard ground and you will have essentially a dangerous hazardous waste issue to deal with if you do drop it. . .so pay attention.

To further help my nic from oxidizing, I like the one way female Luer taper/slip fittings that help exclude air from the bottle. This is what is used in Nude Nicotine’s Nic Armor bottles. I reuse an old 500ml Nic armor bottle for my 25mg/ml mixing solution. This is great because you can flip the cold bottle of nic upside down and draw directly from the bottle using a Luer taper syringe with no needle. If you dont want to use Nude Nicotine’s Nic Armor (I dont work for them or know them) you can still buy the insert for your bottle. I’m providing a link below, but please also remember that your cap will need to have a flat, NOT a polycone insert to work with this system. Flat PTFE (teflon) caps will work fine. Here is where you can buy the insert for your glass bottles:

http://www.mudhole.com/Self-Sealing-Bottle-Cap-Syringe-Insert

In my work I deal with dangerous chemicals regularly. These labs have showers and eyewash stations nearby in case someone is exposed to a nasty chemical. I’ve worked with chemicals so toxic, that no one alive even knows what they smell like, because they kill that quickly. Obviously nic is not THAT bad, but you still need to have a safety-first mindset. When dealing with concentrated nic you need to have a similar thought process in the event you spill on yourself. You need to have a plan on how you will decontaminate yourself and the area where the spill could occur. Think about timeline, tools, and methods for cleanup and disposal. Don’t play with concentrated nic over carpet or other flooring that will absorb the poison. Please be responsible and safe because the ramifications of not doing so can be severe.

Finally, irrespective of where you buy your nic and how you dilute it. . .or even if you do not dilute, you need to spend the $7 to get a nicotine concentration test kit. The test is easy and it is necessary. Remember, you want to be CERTAIN of your nicotine concentration. Errors happen and this is the safest way to know for certain what your nicotine concentration actually is.

http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-liquid/mixing-tools-safety/testing-kits/nicotine-testing-kit.html

I invite anyone with further suggestions to please post them here. I dont mean to sound preachy, although I know that I do. Nevertheless, please consider what I have written and form a plan in your mind should a spill occur. Please be smart and mix thoughtfully. If you dont know how to dilute your nic down to safer levels, please post or come to the chat room and discuss with experienced mixers. This is not a hobby where guesswork is safe. You need to know what you are doing.

Much love and happy vaping!


Nicotine handling and care
Nicotine testing question
#2

One final thing that I sorta glossed over. . .if you break a glass bottle, now you have to deal with sharp glass immersed in poison. Regular rubber or nitrile gloves are not up to that task. I have a heavy set of chemical resistant gloves that I picked up for cheap at Harbor Freight. I use them regularly in the parts washer in my garage. But, if I had to clean up a spill, I’d wear regular gloves inside those heavy gloves. The link below is the closest thing to what I have that I could find.


#3

TRW - great post well written and informative - one other storage/dispensing option (not a cheap one but really good) is a bottle top dispenser - you can get them a littler smaller (and more accurate) than this one but they are well worth the money if you hate dealing with nic like I think most of us do.

Please excuse my messy work space.


#4

That’s very cool. Never seen one before. What’s it called ?


#5

Bottle top dispenser they come in various sizes and accuracy


#7

I second the point that a general post on nicotine safety is interesting, but for instilling best practices you always, always, always need a checklist. And I’ll discount my arguments about lethality here because what matters most are A: Chances of making yourself sick and B (if applicable): chances of harm, including possible lethal harm, to pets and children.

I’m not gonna offer a checklist tho because I’m kinda lazy and overconfident and things. Mine come in 150ml childpoof cap medicine bottles and my windows are blacked out because I work graveyards. I keep them in a drawer on the top shelf of my bookcase so my dog can’t get to them, and I get nic out thru the aluminum foil covering under the cap by just sticking a syringe in there. Also I’m just not real worried about getting 60mg nic on my skin – my brother put some in my coffee once back when e-cigs were new and THAT sucked like hell, but a bit on the skin is just a handwash away from solved in my experience.

If I had kids I’d go quite a bit further for safety measures tho. And I’d use an SOP checklist.


#8

I will definitely consider a checklist, great idea.

LD50…thats lethal dosage for 50% of subjects…I definitely want folks to know I’m not talking about lethal…thats a bad screw up. Obviously you can live through a hellish poisoning experience, but that’s a pretty bad “plan.”

@Ailith, your comments are the type that scare me, but I do get what you’re saying and I’ll consider your post. Busy today, let’s keep up the conversation. I’ll update when I get a chance.


#9

Yeah I figured.

But for people who are concerned about strict safety, checklists be the way to go.


#10

Nic can be absorbed thru the skin, yes.

I have 100mg nic half and half. I don’t worry one bit about myself. Don’t use gloves. I get it on my hand all the time, half and half just doesn’t absorb fast enough to worry about it.

I probably am not a minority.

Anywho, I can understand, safety for kids and pets, so if you want me to delete this post I will

Peace Love and Happiness


#11

It does wash off, but any foolproof plan needs a process that accounts for that 0.1% error. In the OP it was pointed out that this is a matter of statistics and anybody can unintentionally make an error. It only needs to land you in the ER once to make this a valid topic.

So you get some on your hands while mixing and you wipe half-heartedly with a paper towel …the phone rings, it’s your brother and he’s just had a car accident out in the boonies and needs you to come right now with a tow strap. You grab your keys and you’re gone out the door. 45 minutes later you’re way out of town on the road and feeling a little sick or dizzy etc. Shit happens. If you have some Nic handling procedures directed at minimizing exposure it can only be a good thing.

Don’t we all end up with some e-liquid on our hands? I always wash my hands with soap before going to bed for example. I think the more we talk about this the better we can come up with something meaningful re: Safety and Nicotine


#12

Love the view from your mixing station!


#13

Yup certainly one of the pluses of living where i live :grinning:


#14

Here’s a good place for those bottle adapter plugs and some other bulk vaping supplies.

https://www.totalpharmacysupply.com/products/compounding-supplies/vapor-supplies.html


#15

Thank you for posting this link. I had a very hard time finding those plugs.

Ill say in this thread that it was motivated by many mixers coming into chat with questions about safely handling concentrated nic. At the time I wrote this, it was alarmingly frequent.

As someone who has paid the price of willfully avoiding simple safety measures, (nothing to do with vaping or chemistry) its worth it to put these things on your nic. Its worth it to dilute…its once-a-friggin year you lazy bastards. Come on guys, 10k unique hits on this site a day ? We owe it to the species to preach $3 safety.

Much love.


#16

I gotta agree with you here as mixers we can get complacent when it comes to the dangers of nic. It is nasty stuff and all precautions should be taken while handling it. Gloves, glasses, dilution should be bare minimum


#17

TRW told me of the bottle caps a ways back…i searched all over for them…well I found them…in bulk the size goes by the outside diameter of the bottle not the insides…they are like 20 for starting at 2.85 to 4.85 …in that ball park here is the site for them…they are well worth it…Thanks TRW http://shop.gohcl.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=17282


#18

The Adapter plugs are an obvious smart move, but we all have our “processes”. Ask yourself how you can make your repeatable mixing process safer when it comes to decanting Nic. I always get a couple paper towels and a little baggie handy before I start …it’s great if you never need them but when an accident happens it’s best to be already prepared. Standing up is a laboratory standard aimed at keeping spills off your person.

Eliminate distractions …like waiting till the kids aren’t doing laps in your office? Don’t assume it will all go well, instead think of what could go wrong when forming your mixing habits. I mix on a cleanable black surface so I can see spatter/small drips and easily wipe them up right away …I mean is that a drop of Sweet Cream or 100mg nic?

Don’t let your office trash can fill up with any of those pure Nic soaked paper towels. Nic is also an inhalation hazard (evaporation) and kids, pets, and nosey wives (jokes!) are attracted to wadded up paper products in your wastebin. You can’t even tell yourself, if that balled up tissue just wiped off your RDA, or your bottle of Nic, so just a small ziplock baggie (mentioned above) for Nic wipes, pipettes, and used gloves, that can go right out to the main trash (outside). Because the real worst case is the person getting Nicotine poisoning is not you.

[Dad Mode Off] :sunglasses:


#19

And just in-case your looking for the good stuff to worry about…


#20

chuckling to myself …imagining a tractor trailer backing up to the house …driver rolls the door up (wearing a respirator mask) revealing lone jug of 1000mg nic strapped to full sized pallet. Have to say I might not take that if someone tried to give it to me.


#21

But you just cant beat the price. $260 for a liter plus $32.50 for the 2.5 gal of VG for $292 making 10,000ml or 2.6 gallons of 100mg/ml for about $0.03 a ml or $1.80 for 60mls… If you can use or store for doomsday

If only I could find it in nicsalts, hmmm or do some research

US Patent # US20160044968
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20160044968.PGNR.&OS=DN/20160044968&RS=DN/20160044968

Good stuff:grinning:
But this post would probably be much more useful somewhere else