Liquid Labs (30% FLASH SALE GOING ON NOW!)

I agree with you on most points @BoyHowdy. I experienced exceptional enhanced flavor at 24hrs. But on my 2 week steeping test both were extremely muted. One was the RF Bread Pudding, and all that was apparent at that point was some slight background cream notes with a bare hint of cinnamon. The other was FA Oba Oba, and that was maybe a very slight hint of vanilla sweetness left. It was honestly very discouraging to me. So I believe the muting will end up being obvious on some of the bakery flavors as well. Iā€™m not counting it out yet though. I have 5 more days on a 4 week steep to retry those 2 flavors, as well as a custard mix and a more complex blend. I am hoping the flavor returned but not counting on it, I donā€™t want to get my hopes up.

Although this concept for a vapor base is a really good idea, I donā€™t think it was thoroughly thought out or planned. Itā€™s great for people that want an easy way to mix and donā€™t really care about accuracy of nicotine or viscosity. Unfortunately, most people are very very particular to their amount of nicotine. That is after all what most vapers are addicted to and what gets and keeps them off analogs.

I understand why VaporBase canā€™t sell the PDO individually, as then they would just be another vendor that sells VG, PDO, and nicotine products in an already saturated market.

Iā€™m not sure how any company would purchase and use this in their commercial eliquid, as they canā€™t label them appropriately with viscosity or correct nicotine content. In order to make a product comply for labeling, they would have to calculate and add additional nicotine to reach the 3mg, 6mg, 9mg or etc after the dilution that occurs with adding flavoring. Which defeats the concept of simple and easy mixing the VB is catering to, so that leaves individual diyā€™ers and PG sensitive people left as target audiences.

PG sensitive vapers do have the option of 100% VG now that more VG flavorings are becoming available, although variety of flavors are somewhat limited. While it doesnā€™t carry flavor as well as PG, it works to resolve symptoms. So VB as an alternative is a fantastic and encouraging option IF it works that provides value. But even then, PG sensitive people are a very small percentage in the grand numbers, so while great for us, there isnā€™t enough of us to purchase enough to keep VB in the profit zone. Which leaves catering to the regular diyā€™er to fill in the gaps and operate in the black.

So say your target for your concept is PG sensitive and diy mixers. What value is there in this product for the average diyā€™er? Faster steep times, better flavor, faster and easier mixing? So maybe this is great (so far) for flavor in S&Vā€™s. Faster and easier mixing? Definitely not. You have to pull out the calculator and figure out how much nic is left after adding flavoring, and that will always vary based on recipes used. Then calculate how much additional nic you need to add to the diluted product to reach your desired nic levels.

Would you not include that in your market research and learn what you can about what is important to mixers when developing your product? Such as nic level. You know most common strengths are 3-6-9-12mg. So why would you not make it in 4mg , 7mg, 10mg and 13mg so that after diluting it with flavoring you are maybe a little higher on nic and not under? Or even make a line of different formulations. Where they have done the math so that it is as easy as just adding flavoring, shake and go. Make a light VB that when combined with 10% flavoring will come to 3mg nic. And a medium VB that when combined with 15% flavoring will still equal 3mg nic. And a heavy VB that mixed with 20% flavoring equals 3mg nic. And then do all those with the 6mg nic. And the 9mg, etc. You get my point. That way mixers/vapors can choose which to use based on their recipes and flavor preferences. But, that means having 4 or 5 formulations. Then add in 2-3 different viscosities of each formulation. Now you have 15 total formulations. Is your lab capable of doing that? Do you have enough employees. Is it still cost effective? I donā€™t know those answers.

Itā€™s just like eliquid lines, there is no one size fits all. And basically the same thing goes for offering a thicker viscosity version, which I understand they are developing now. Viscosity is very important to a lot of vapers for practical reasons, such as size of wicking holes on mtl coils, is it thin enough to wick fast and keep up. Or is it thick enough in RTAā€™s to not leak when wicked appropriately. Viscosity is not just about clouds, it has very important considerations.

To me all of this stuff should have already been known to someone in the vaping industry, or certainly researched and polled if not known before production. Then given consideration when developing the product. I really am hoping that VaporBase is successful as I feel it is a beginning of providing a needed product to a certain niche of vapers.

And all that is IF it holds itā€™s flavor with steeping. I hope so, but testing among us all so far is showing a pattern of flavor muting being an issue with steep. As @wvsanta said, it may end up being a viable product using a lower percentage of PDO in the mix. Or maybe not? But why was it not tested thoroughly before this to make sure itā€™s a viable product that works as advertised before selling it? I have a curious mind and love playing with new flavors and products, but there are a lot of mixers that just donā€™t have the time.

Ooops, I think my 2 cents wandered into the 10 cent territory :zipper_mouth:

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A very valuable 10 cents though and very good points madeā€¦

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The Bread Pudding is the one that I donā€™t understand.I mixed the same recipe named Bread Pudding that I made on 4/12/16 , only this time using VB instead of my usual Essential Depot VG , PG and My Freedom Smokes nicotine.Luckily I had a small amount of the original to compare and I honestly canā€™t tell a difference between the two.It has to be because it is a mixture of the three flavors and somehow that caused it not to be muted.
I am going to try some smaller 10ml samples of single flavors and see if I can get a change in flavor.
I think we both mix in a similar fashion.
I shake my flavorings before mixing and then after everything is mixed I use a milk frother to mix for about 2-3 minutes.Then I bottle and run it through a 20 minute cycle in my ultra sonic cleaner at 50 degrees Celsius.
I thank you for your thoughts it is very helpful!

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Could have been me too. Maybe my coil was fading. Or maybe I was having a bad test day? I do believe we mix very similar as well. Although I donā€™t use an ultrasonic. Just time. Maybe that made a difference? I froth as well, but heat does help thin the VG for better blending. I use warmed VG when adding it to the recipes, but it cools much faster than the extended time in the ultrasonic.

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If anyone made a mistake it was I , that I am sure.I am just trying to figure out what works and what doesnā€™t , same as the rest of us.We are all in this together and I apologize most sincerely if I made you feel like you did something wrong.That is the last thing from my mind!:pray:

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No no no. I insist, it was I that made the mistake :wink: Iā€™m sure of it. You absolutely did not offend me in any way. I appreciate all input and help at all times. I am still a beginner and have a lot to learn.

I am opinionated and not afraid to speak my mind as is probably very obvious :confused: I am still a noob at all this though, and your posts and shared knowledge has helped me many times. Thank you for your input, and please continue to share, it helps me very much :smiley:

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We are all new at this to be honest but I know with the help of everyone we will get it figured out.I know that I speak for everyone in saying that the last thing we need is for anyone afraid to share their findings.Keep up the good work and posting those results!:grinning:

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Use all the cents you need you are putting out some really good info. I will be trying my second mix soon and will add my thoughts on that test also.

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Finally had some free time to participate! Iā€™ve mixed up 3 5 ml samples each for 3 different flavorings.

sample 1: using VaporBase ā€œas intendedā€ (just flavoring + VaporBase)
sample 2: max VG to compare what a PG sensitive user would be using
sample 3: my usual 70/30 VG/PG blend

First RF Bread Pudding (so we can get some more data points for @MysticRose and @BoyHowdy, tho 3 data points hardly makes a sample, but I digress). Based on previous feedback, I also wanna do a fruity test, so Iā€™ve done the same thing with RF Cherry Pie. Finally I wanted something herbal like a tobacco, but since I donā€™t do tobaccos Iā€™m using some RF English Breakfast Tea (leftover from the Beta). If this looks like Iā€™m favoring RF flavoring, itā€™s just because itā€™s the only VG based flavoring I have and I wanted to do true 100% VG for a test case.

So while those were in a 30 minute USC bath, I tried a little unflavored VaporBase vaped on a single coil RDA in TC mode. Flavor is very clean. Compared to straight VG (Essential Depot Palm), it is just slightly harsher, has no inherent sweetness, and produced adequate vapor. Compared to my regular unflavored 30/70 3 mg mix itā€™s about the same. Iā€™m not particularly sensitive to PG so that isnā€™t a surprise.

Shake (and USC) and Vape results:

VB Bread Pudding: flavor comes thru nice and bright cinnamon and pastry, with a hint of vanilla
Max VG Bread Pudding: flavor is slightly muted, more pastry, thereā€™s a hint of vanilla, and the cinnamon is obscured
70/30 Bread Pudding: flavor is comparable to the VaporBase mix, ties with VB

VB Cherry Pie: good cherry flavor with a hint of pie crust, almost comparable to an older mix of fully steeped 70/30 with 10% flavoring but the crust isnā€™t quite there. Iā€™m surprised how much the cherry stands out compared to previous comments about how this carries fruits.
Max VG Cherry Pie: flavor is very muted, barely there at all
70/30 Cherry Pie: flavor is slightly muted, better than Max VG, but VB wins this round hands down.

VB English Tea: nice yummy black tea
Max VG English Tea: flavor is muted, but other than intensity itā€™s the same profile
70/30 English Tea: comparable to VB mix, maybe slightly milder, but close enough Iā€™m calling it another tie

So day 1, itā€™s almost a toss up between 70/30 and VB, with 100% VG being the big loser. Iā€™m a bit surprised at how the cherry flavor came shining thru in the VB, considering earlier comments. My initial thought is this stuff should be pretty good for someone looking to try an alternative to PG. Steeped results will be interesting.

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This is some of the most intelligent reporting I have seen on this forumā€¦and that is not putting anybody down, at all, because we know how in-depth and intent we can be here in this forum. My statement is elevating youā€¦excellent in-depth reporting, Mystic, excellent indeed.

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Thank you for such excellent and thorough testing and results. That seems to go along with what most of us have noticed. As a S&V the VB is fantastic and even enhances a lot of flavors. Itā€™s the steeped results that have been the problem. Please keep us all updated on your further testing, as you say there isnā€™t enough of us testers to make a good data pool I donā€™t feel, but at least we are all trying :smiley:

As a PG sensitive vaper, I agree completely also on your all VG mix. That is what sucks. All VG just doesnā€™t carry flavor well, and takes a longgggg steep. Even then, the flavor will never be as good as a 30/70 blend. Although I do use 4% sterile saline to thin a bit and it helps a little. As Iā€™m a flavor whore, I still use 30/70 anyway, even with the throat pain, but as time goes on it seems to get worse and the headaches as well. So I am very hopeful for these new alternatives to work. Might even have to just stop steeping at some point and do S&V exclusively if that is the only way to keep the flavor. I hope not though, I like to keep many flavors in rotation.

Thank you very much, but it is all our teamwork and brainstorming all of us on this forum do together that gives us the best results and success. I am thankful to all of us on this forum for our helpfulness and welcoming attitudes to all levels of experience and opinions. As well as your amazing helpfulness, and willingness to put in your time, money, and effort to make things possible such as vape bands, free drip tips and rayon to allow some of us to try things we couldnā€™t otherwise afford. Thank you very much for all you do :slight_smile:

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My second test using Vapor Base and comparing it to a 10PG/90VG blend.

Real Flavors Cinnamon Donut flavor at 10% with FW Marshmallow at 1%.

In all fairness I should point out that I did the 10/90 mix at 1.5 nic using Nicotine Rivers Nic Select 3 days before I got the Vapor Base sample. I ordered the 3mg sample knowing it would get diluted some by adding flavors to it. My normal preference for nic is 1.5mg.

I also need to point out that my first impression of VB was how smooth it was and that was after trying my first test as a shake and vape not after a good steep.

For those that think without a picture there is no proof

You can clearly see these were made 4 days apart so this test should show rather VB steeps any faster than my normal 10/90 blend.

Test devices used for this comparison. First up is my normal taste testing device the Velocity dripper on my RX200

Then next up was testing in a tank. I used my Kayfun V5 clone for this test on my VT133

Now to add my personal thoughts on this. Please keep in mind this is still ongoing since this is roughly at the 3 week steep and not a full month as most of the RF flavors seem to need.

The VB sample in both the dripper and the tank was still very similar to the shake and vape test I did when it was first mixed. The cinnamon donut flavor was sort of like burnt cinnamon with a very floral type of taste to it. I guess this could be due to the fact that I did not reduce the amount of flavoring used but it is bad enough that it is in no way vapeable. The other thing I need to mention is I did not have leaking issues using the Kayfun tank like I did with my Lemo tank but I did still get the flooding the wick issue when I let it sit for over 1 hour not getting used.

The 10/90 PG VG blend test batch on the other hand has matured into a completely vapeable mix. I do think that it will get even better over the next week but only time will tell the story so I will report back again in about a week.

I would love to be able to get some straight PDO @VaporBase to do some R&D testing with because I do truly think there is great potential for this to help those that are PG sensitive like myself.

Happy 4th for those in the US

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I wonā€™t be buying from Liquid Labs. If you are curious as to why, feel free to PM me. My experience with them is nothing short of horrid.

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Quite a few have expressed interest in my experiences. If there is more interest, I will timeline the whole clusterfsck and post it here. Iā€™ve not quite decided to make it public.

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I truly believe everyone here would want to know and more importantly needs to know what your experience with Liquid Labs has been. What happened to you should have never happened. After you shared your story with me I took what I had left of my testers and dumped them down the sink just to be safe.

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OK Folks, there is great interest in my experiences with this. Iā€™ll time line it with commentary and let you all draw your own conclusions. I was at odds over posting this at first, but through the kind and gentle prodding of my fellow members, I realized that it was actually my duty to you all to post this.
If you have received VB from Liquid Labs, please be cautious and if you are able, get out the nicotine test kit and USE IT.

May 26 Placed order for 0mg Vapor Base.
June 6 Received first confirmation that my order was complete. (12 days later)
June 10, received another confirmation that my order was complete.
June 13, received another confirmation that my order was complete.
June 23, received another confirmation that my order was complete.
June 23, I contacted Liquid Labs through their contact form stating that I had yet to receive my order.
What followed on June 23 was an email conversation with an un-named CSR that did apologize and managed to get the order resubmitted.
On June 27 I received my sample order. A bottle labeled 100mg/ml Nicotine.
I was pissed. I put the bottle down, and pretty much forgot about it until July 2.

July 2, I sent LL an email stating that I had received 100mg/ml instead of the 0mg that I had ordered. Their immediate suggestion was that it had been mislabeled and requested I send them a picture of the bottle. He wanted to try to tell by color of the liquid what it truly was. Too late, I had already dumped it. But still, seriously? They are suggesting that they can accurately identify a hazardous material by a picture sent over the internet? If I was that worried about it, I would have tested it. After all that had been done, it seemed more prudent to dump it.

At this point, I was well beyond being done with the whole mess. Written off as a cheap lesson that only cost me $2.73. Through all of this, the most that LL had to offer was a possible discount on a future order.

So let me get this straight. A material that has the potential to kill somebody is mis-labeled and or sent incorrectly?
The level of incompetence that leads me to writing this is incomprehensible and simply represents total negligence on the part of Liquid Labs.
Folks, with somethings we arenā€™t afforded the luxury of screwing up. What if it had been 100mg/ml that was labeled as 0mg and left out by a parent thinking it totally safe, only to have a 5 year old child take a big swig of it. Or more likely, one of us had mixed with it only to very quickly find ourselves becoming ill from nicotine poisoning.
Totally inexcusable.

I canā€™t trust a company that operates this way. I canā€™t trust them to get the order correct, nor can I trust them on the actual contents of what they say they are selling. No trust, no business from me.


wow, not sure what happened with the thumbnailing of the pic of the bottleā€¦weird.

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Thanks for the share, brother. You did rightā€¦for sure.

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Iā€™m curious, Bā€¦did they have you sign a waiver to receive that 100mg? I had to sign a waiver to receive the 100mg bottle I ordered.

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Heya WR,
No I did not sign any waiver. The liquid was perfectly clear, so I doubt if it was 100mg. It could have however been a weaker dilution.

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Thatā€™s very interesting. ā€¦and not all nicotine has a detectable colorā€¦it very well could have been 100mg

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