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Question about paraseries


#21

I tried my best…but half way through my face became one with the keyboard…

I’m typing this with my tongue…


#22

That’s the reason I don’t use mechs :laughing:


#23

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/serial_and_parallel_battery_configurations

Fig 6 shows what is available voltage wise and current wise, in a series-parallel battery circuit.

Don’t just skip to Fig 6. The info that leads up to it is important as well.


#24

Have read that before but the batt amp draw was never mentioned


#25

The amperage drawn in a circuit depends on the load of the circuit. In this case, that would be the resistance of the coil being used. Amperage will vary, depending on the load.


#26

Do you know how the amp draw is split between each battery in a paraseries mod? I have never found an answer.


#27

Para%20Series%20Analysis

This is electrical theory only. Reality factors such as 1.5 in parallel configurations are wiser to work with.


#28

Yes, thank you. Nice diagram that shows capacities (both voltage & current) available.

Like you said ‘perfect world theory’. In reality, I would assume the current actually drawn, per cell, in a ‘paraseries’ mod would vary a little, depending on each cell’s condition and lead length of the connecting wiring between cells, and how close to their limit, they are being pushed.

It’s been almost 40 years since I’ve had to use any of Kirchoff’s Laws to analyze a circuit. I need multiple cups of coffee, (in series) to think about this stuff first thing in the morning.

Not being familiar with ‘paraseries’, which I assume is just a cute term for series parallel, are the cells balanced in the circuit? 2 + 2? It’s not 3 cells in series, connected to a 4th cell, in parallel?


#29

Thank you! I was expecting glass bottles and tomatoes! Here’s the rub. Batteries are not regulated devices. They are the result of chemical reaction. Each battery will be different and all batteries will deviate in output both in terms of volts and ohms dependent upon load. As you mentioned, the “quality” of the chemical reaction will depend on age, temperature, your grandmother’s shoe size, etc. In real world application batteries will work together and attempt to “compensate” for each other but how effectively that is achieved is well, beyond my tolerance for detail. At the end of the day, I would put the entire circuit on a scope measuring across the load and see what I get. The alternative would be to go through all of Mouche’s charts and try to come up with an aggregate that would apply. Mind numbing exercise.


#30

Oh hey, I apologize, I missed the part on “balanced”. I have to assume they are balanced. It is the only configuration that would make any sense. Otherwise a single battery in series would act as a limiter to the circuit.


#31

Mind numbing indeed! I’m glad I’m a low power, single cell vaper. It’s kinda fun to dust off the circuit theory cobwebs though!

I have to wonder what is the real benefit of the ‘paraseries’ mod? Is it a new angle, to just offer something new, and sell products?


#32

Good question. I have no idea. Maybe some folks will find loads that can take advantage of them. Maybe some company will sell “innovation”, lol. I’m with you. I have one series mech mod and 8.4V is just not a very practical voltage. I would love to use 6V Batteries if they were available as that would lend much nicer to the coils I work with. I do fine with single battery mech mods. Simple builds with low mass. Nice enjoyable vapes.


#33

I’m with you. I have some single cell mechs in the just in case, back up stash. My builds never go over 2.5 amp draw, so I’m well inside the safety fence.

Maybe the paraseries mods have a practical reason to be offered, that I’m missing, being a flea power vaper. I suppose there has to be a reason other than marketing.


#34

The practical reason for a parallel mod is safety at lower ohms and less amp draw offering you longer battery life.

I know how the parallel work. I am still trying to figure out how a paraseries works…in simple caveman terms.

I like a powerful warm vape. I also like my face right where it is. So this information is pretty important to me.

The science behind it doesn’t help me a lot. The math part does.


#35

Ok making sense now. I understand the parallel part, spreading the total current drawn, between 2 cells for longer battery life & safety.

The series part makes sense too, since that produces higher voltage, allowing more wattage.

I agree 100% about the face thing…lol


#36

@woftam Sorry man. This is above my pay-grade and knowledge, and IMO, genuinely requires someone in the range of an electrical engineer (or higher) to safely answer (since it’s for mass public consumption).

@the topic overall:
I do have some thoughts on it all (of course) but I’ll try and sum them up by simply saying the following:

Given that we’ve (the overall vaping community, not just ELR) seen issues with ‘simple’ one and two battery mods, whether it be proper handling and carrying of batteries, all the way to the sad (but factually accurate) truth that far more often than should happen, the electronics in many mods DO NOT deliver what they advertise (from safe, balanced charging, all the way up to protections working as intended).

Given such, I can’t/don’t/won’t honestly trust the average manufacturer in such an application (cheap, off the shelf imports) where such elaborate circuit designs are not only required, but critical to the safe operations of series-parallel battery mods. As IMO, many haven’t yet proven worthy of my trust in producing consistently reliable units with “100% operation” as intended/marketed with simple mods.
I’m hardly willing to trust these same folks with something far more complex. YMMV.

There’s far more complex things to consider in a series-parallel application (with respect to batteries). Internal resistive reactance, capacitive reactance, whether or not the monitoring circuitry is accurate (or was *even implemented), and on and on… And that’s not even tending to the idea of putting a complex deck on the top, adding another possible point of confusing the concepts of what applies to series-parallel resistance, vs what applies to series-parallel batteries, for the average user.


#37

That was exactly my thoughts/reaction. Take the classically accepted electronics term (that Joe Public isn’t going to know) Series-parallel, and turn it into a marketing gimmick/brand. :roll_eyes:

/general topic, related:

The above is the basic concept (and I clipped it for sharing an easier understanding as I was reading this thread, but I believe it came from the same site that @d_fabes linked, if not the same page).

My caution to everyone would be: be extremely careful how much faith you extend these devices (and especially those manufacturers with a track record of “issues”).


#38

I’d ‘like’ that comment twice, if I could.


#39

C’mon man! You are the reviewer you need to find these things out. Now buckle up buttercup and go get you a paraseries and tell us what is going on!:crazy_face:


#40

essentially you could theoretically build 30-40 amp loads safely with 8.4v, but they recommend staying above .25 unless you’re used to it, cause that’s equivalent to 240 watts, You could safely build for 35-40A depending on batteries, if you’d be able to take the hit or not is the real question.

I don’t know what I just said…I just copied and pasted that shit…I sounded clever though right?..for a second…

I don’t even know what the question was…my answer was 42…and that can’t be right…