While I do agree that shipping prices for what we want is crazy, I look at it as the governments means of imposing a “sin” tax on us. I don’t look at it as the vendors trying to get more of our funds, maybe I’m just naive.
I feel the same way. It’s like punishment for breaking the cycle of smoking and trying life over death. I don’t blame the vendors for being compliant. I just hate we have to pay for a misguided approach to deter us from vaping. I guess they want their cut.
Can you imagine a diy/vapers isle at your local Walmart. That’ll be great.
There is a major difference in price tho. The same order from BCF was quite a bit less mostly as a direct result of shipping options who was able to ship the same flavorings via USPS. The there are the SC’s which contain small amounts of alcohol and they ship out USPS as well.
This is new for all vendors and i hope it gets sorted out, soon.
Makes ya wonder how much alcohol is in some of these restricted items and also what the limit is before it has to be restricted.
Maybe @Nicotine_River can answer this for us as they have seen the wrath of the gov.
EDIT: @Walt_RealFlavors feel free to step in. You are one of the more trusted vendors on ELR.
We have all MSDS sheets and flammable info on file with all our shippers. Our alcohol is under 3% so we never have had an issue before. No hazmat info needs to be declared.
Do you know how much alcohol is too much to ship for the USPS? It’s of concern to some of us here.
I recently compared a 4oz bottle of flavoring with NR vs Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers and both were priced the same. The difference was that LNW offers a 15% discount for ELR members and lower shipping. The price difference was $3.00 after all is said and done. I placed an order Saturday and received it Tuesday. I have to say, I’m impressed. I haven’t had to test their customer service dept which is where NR really shines and their selection at this time is small but they have added more in the past week.
Flammable liquids or solids that contain ethyl alcohol are eligible to be mailed via domestic air transportation only with prior written authorization.
Mailers must submit a letter of request to the manager, Product Classification (see 214 for address). The request must include a list of each specific product to be mailed under the authorization, an MSDS for each product, the office of mailing, and expected frequency and quantity of mailings.
Approvals are initially provided for the duration of one year. Subsequent approvals are performance-based and will be extended in one- to three-year increments.
If approved, the mailer must:
Present a copy of their authorization letter from the manager, Product Classification (to be kept on file at the office of mailing) at the time of their first mailing at any given Postal Service facility. Mailings not supported by an authorization letter will be refused.
For content containing not more than 70% ethyl alcohol by volume, tender only parcels weighing 25 pounds or less. Each non-glass primary receptacle must not exceed 16 ounces of flammable liquid or 1 pound of solids. Each glass primary receptacle must not exceed 8 ounces of flammable liquid or 1/2 pound of solids. Total volume of flammable material per mailpiece must not exceed 96 ounces for flammable liquids or 16 pounds for flammable solids.
For content containing more than 70% ethyl alcohol by volume, tender only parcels weighing 16 pounds or less. Each primary package receptacle must not exceed 8 ounces of flammable liquid or 1/2 pound of solids. Total volume of flammable material per mailpiece must not exceed 48 ounces for flammable liquids or 8 pounds for flammable solids.
Enter parcels using Priority Mail Express, Priority Mail, First-Class Mail, or First-Class Package Service.
Label each parcel on the address side with the mailer’s company name and return address.
Label each parcel on the address side with the marking “Contains Air-Eligible Ethyl Alcohol — Authorization Number #,” using at least 14-point type.
Ensure that the addressee of each parcel is notified that the addressee is not authorized to re-mail the contents of the parcel via air transportation. The mailer must include the following written notice:
“Flammable liquids or solids contained in these packages may be mailed only by consumers (the addressee) via surface transportation in accordance with USPS Publication 52, section 343. Full responsibility rests with the mailer to comply with all postal and nonpostal statutes and regulations regarding mail. Information regarding postal statutes, regulations, and mailing requirements is available from your local Postmaster or district manager, Business Mail Entry, and at the Postal Service’s mailing standards website, Postal Explorer, at pe.usps.com.”
Comply with the warning and labeling requirements set forth in 21 CFR 700, 701.3, and 740.1 when mailing each parcel.
Comply with all quantity, packaging, and marking requirements in Packaging Instruction 3D in Appendix C.
I wonder if some special circumstance is allowed by the USPS to limit alcohol volume in flavor concentrates, because I really hope I don’t own any flavors with 70% alcohol.
From reading your post it does appear to be legal to ship concentrates after filing the proper paperwork. I feel these vendors should help us understand what the issue is. @Nicotine_River has said they were fined… can you shed some light?
Dude seriously? You are complaining about less than $10. See how you go when the minimum shipping for most stuff is over $30. If you don’t like what a company is doing with their shipping - don’t shop there!
Insulting people because you have to pay a few more dollars for shipping is really petty. If you like the product they offer then buy it if you don’t want to shell out for the shipping then don’t buy it
Nothing personal here - just didn’t think that insulting people was a necessity it is not like the guys in the shipping department set the prices or deserve you anger.
So this is criticism to you?
If you ask me it’s more like an attack on people then it is something else. I mean you basically said that everyone working there is incompetent not being able to do their job.
I’m pretty sure they will be happy to see you do your shopping elsewhere considering how you treated them in this thread alone.
Easy boys, play nicely or I’ll have to bang your heads together
I have read this thread, and a lot of it makes sense, but on the flipside, there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle that no one ever sees. For the record, it wasn’t Flammable flavors we got fined for it was shipping 100mg Fedex 2 Day on an airplane by mistake. That fine was 79k, at that point, we realized that our shipping methods were not going to cut it if we wanted to stay in business. We hired a third party company and put eight people here through DOT and IATA training for ground and air shipments so we would never have to feel the pain of fines like this again. During these training for poison/toxic (nicotine) shipment we learned that a good 80 - 120 flavors we carry were flammable. We of course then learned how to ship those as well. The tough part is building an algorithm for the website that work’s because there are so many variables of what items can be in a cart, where you are located vs. where we are located, the shipping times, what discounts we have on shipping rates vs. another vendor, there are too many variables to be successful every time. Sometime’s we lose, and sometimes we win. I understand shipping is a lot, and it does make or break placing orders through us, I truly understand.
You see other vendors making changes to their shipping not because of us but because they might have realized that if they want to stick around, they can’t keep eating the shipping on $50, $65, $75 or more. I think everyone to a certain degree thinks that myself and all other vendors just print money and there is so much profit in this. Don’t get me wrong we get by and everyone is happy but between, insurances, training, disposable hazmat fees, rent, employees, taxes, vehicles, machinery, product, and just overall business expenses it’s tough to float “Free Shipping” on top of all of that. Trust me if anyone has tried working this in it is me. I don’t want to see anyone struggle and I want everyone to be happy while embarking on their DIY journey. We lowered pricing on tons of items to help with the shipping increases and we are doing our best to make changes every day to the shipping algorithm as well. Please be patient as this is always a working progress. I did see the order above and you are right it should show USPS and this is a prime example of what I mean. If there are ever any shipping rate questions please feel free to call. I want to save everyone as much money as possible and still be able to stick around give you all the best service and products available.
Ouch. Can’t blame anyone for doing whatever is necessary to avoid fines like that!!
So is this issue now fixed? I haven’t placed my order yet and if NR is in order with the other vendors I will place my order with you.
Is this in regards to this 4oz of lemon lime above?
Yep that’s me.
Because that is a flammable flavor for us, only UPS ground will show up. I see above ECX still shows USPS Frist Class that may be the best for now. I, of course, want your business and always will but I can’t deviate from the rules my friend I apologize. It is best to take advantage of vendors who aren’t implementing these rules yet to get the best savings on shipping.
Thanks for your input. I was able to place my order elsewhere and saved enough to add a couple other flavors.