I think the fear with butric acid is it isn’t really tested. It is like we know this is kind of bad so lets use this complete unknown thing.
Thats true. But if, for example, I buy a can of Spam, where I come from its entire contents are listed on the can so I know 100% whats in it, & I can make an informed decision about buying it. Despite knowing whats init, im quite happy not to make it myself. Now, I’m certainly not suggesting flavors should be labled with this info …but it would be good to know
When you buy a can of spam they don’t have to tell you everything that is in it. There is a list of Ingredients yes but they only have to tell if it is at a specific %. It is the same with the flavoring we buy. The MSDS sheets are probably the best your going to get with out being a large buyer and sign a non disclosure agreement.
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In Australia, they do …a %age of each major ingredient & a list of every minor ingredient making up the whole. But thats by the by. I think youre probably right about the MSDS sheets being the best bet. But personally, I think thats a sad lack of transparency by the flavor companies. I totaly believe they could list everything without giving anything away - I’m not suggesting they list %ages, only ingredients. I’d rekon in most cases, flavor for flavor, theyre prob all made with the same stuff anyhow - with the diff being %ages of ingredient .
I really wouldnt mind knowing everything that I just enhaled. Not that I’m worried - its gotta be better than than the alternative. It IS better - no doubt about it!. It’d just be good to know.
A lot of the ingredients are not going to be listed because they are part of the “trade secret” part of a flavor recipe. Ingredients listed on food will typically have something along the lines of “natural and artificial flavors” and/or “spices”. Those are what make things taste the way they do and the part of the recipe that is secret. If he’d be interested in enlightening us, I think the best person to speak to this would be @Walt_RealFlavors since flavors is what he does. 
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In the EU with the TPD going into effect, listing all the ingredients is exactly what will be required of flavour companies. I don’t know what will happen in the US regarding future regulations.
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You mean something like this 
(From a recipe we just submitted for the the TPD)
MOST places are super private about what they put in the flavors.
Vanilla Custard if you are interested…
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I found this on the TPA site. Click on “List” at the far right side of the page. Other vendors have something similar. Google the vendors you are interested in and see if this info is provided.
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Yup. I can see the US being lax in the way of requiring manufacturers to list all ingredients. I’m sure lawyers will make lots of money being employed, fighting to keep “trade secrets” a secret.
My 2 cents… Transparency and truth is a good thing. 
But, you know the good ole USA:
Nothing to worry about here folks! 
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You got it!!!
…I can easily find a list of the 600 + ingredients in a cigarette.
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So @Walt_RealFlavors, thanks for chiming in!
Are you saying that those are the components that make up 100% of your VC?
We may well have another decade before we can truthfully say any of the flavorings are well tested for inhalation use. But compared to the shitshow I was inhaling every day when I smoked, I’m actually relatively comforted that they’re at least well-tested for safety in food use.
That is an old one but yes 
Thank you Walt! I appreciate your response.
Thats exactly an example of what I was looking for![quote=“Josephine_van_Rijn, post:11, topic:56566”]
In the EU with the TPD going into effect, listing all the ingredients is exactly what will be required of flavour companies.
[/quote]
I’ll wait till this happens to get the rest.
But in the meantime… if you dont mind… VC is a very common flavor. Would you say the number of components in this flavor is ‘average’ compared to most others?
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See that is a tough question. A company could use other things to make the flavor. It REALLY varies per company.
For example we use VG for extraction… So Glycerol is super high. Also we use Butyric Acid in a higher amount while using something else to counter the disgusting smell
Some of the elements in our blends have alcohol in them but are later removed… (Yes we still have to list them due to regulations)
The new TPD is throwing a wrench to most flavor houses. This is a huge thing to ask a flavoring company to do. Most I doubt will do it, some I doubt even know them (the re-bottlers).
I have been asking other companies what they are going to do about it and the feelings are mixed.
Capella (Mackenzie): We are aware of the deadline and are working towards TPD compliance. No timeline has been set.
TFA (Flynn): Safety Data Sheets are documents that declare the CAS and quantity of any chemical ingredient regulated under Regulation. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the regulation itself we are unable to register our flavors
So pretty much I think come registration time it will be a mess. TFA discloses some but not all.
None the less Real Flavors will disclose it all. Now if they ask for my source of the raw ingredients, we will have an issue
(Yes Vanillin can vary depending the source by A LOT!)
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Walt I’ve picked up another 10 odd of your flavors on top of the 15 I haven’t even received yet. Your presence here and elsewhere is a chief driver of that. A company that is willing to get down and dirty with individual end-users is worthy of my dollar. . .
Thank You.
IMA try and guess you vanilla origin. That’s sort of a hobby of mine. I know you won’t tell, but they do vary widely. . .almost like coffee. I’m a bit of a vanilla bean collector.
Could be rough, it is a combo of three 50% / 25% / 25%
You guess it and I promise to tell you. Your only hint is that I add no sweetener for a reason
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its been proven all ejuice contains horse semen in it. Helps with the clouds brahh
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No way I’m that good, but knowing it’s a mix will be really fun to ponder.
That EU reg is complete BS. Plants create more chemicals than humans could ever hope to as a species. They have had hundreds of millions of years to figure it out. We’ve only scratched the surface of knowing what they can do. Only scare tactics and/or ignorance/naivety could drive such nonsense.
Walt, I’d love a soursop flavor. I’d be willing to help fund the purchase of the original essence (or whatever you call it). I’m not kidding. I’m really looking forward to trying your stuff. Oh, I’m also willing to roast you some coffee to help get a flavor that tastes the way real, fresh, high-quality coffee tastes. Alternatively, just pick up some coffee from George Howell. . .but his stuff is very expensive. Anyway, I’m very open to collaboration in a real sense on those flavors. I’m well beyond what anyone would consider a “coffee snob.”
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That’s actually the root of the notion that artificial flavorings may be better for vaping. Because you have a single specific isomer of a flavor molecule rather than whatever soup some plant has concocted. Dunno how legit that theory is, but it seems reasonable to me.
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