ok i get that. if its bland its not enough but why the perfume smell and the acrid taste ? i dont overpower the ratios
Hey Middle,
I see that you have been mixing for July 2015. Did you take a break on mixing and your back? I was surprised to login on laptop to see original posts from 2015 and see issues with perfumy/bland. I donāt really post from my laptop since I use my phone to do all my posting, but wanted to really pump you up as a newer mixer. I really wanted to share that when I started mixing back in October 2015 everything suckedā¦I thought everything was wrong and I was tricked into diy on this idea of saving money, and all that stuff. I even thought a mixer everyone knows about (HIC) was an agent from FA and he just convinced me to buy $100 in FA flavors that were not working.
To get out of the loop of bad juices I posted and discussed every mistake that I made. It was embarrassing to have people point out the most obvious topics because I had read those topics at one point. Slowly but surely, I got better, I learned, I even enjoyed to learn to try and enjoy some of my perfumy mixes because I am excited to learn the flavor notes and think all day on how to change it.
That being saidā¦ I agree with @Pro_Vapes Pro_vapes. 
If you have been fighting with your flavorsā¦your going to have to branch out. I see alot of TPA. Please look into some FA flavors and others. No I havenāt typed in my flavor stash hereā¦but out of my 150+ flavors the vast majority is FA, and then a handfull from INW, then TPA, and last at the lowest ammount CAPā¦Oooo and 1 bottle of MF White Chocolate (going to mix with today).
As for the cuttwood unicorn milk recipe, I only could see a few comments. I hope its a great recipeā¦however, I personally would not have mixed it exactly I see three comments and no feedback from the mixer. I see it rated at 5 stars but when comparing to the very top recipes here on the site with 20 points of feedback and 50 commentsā¦if I was only going to mix someone elseās recipes I would go with those. (please keep in mind that for many of use when we post our work, many hours went into it prior to getting posted, the recipe should be top notch, but based on taste preferences one persons recipe may not work for youā¦for example I love my Zenāo"oba recipesā¦however, I would not recommend trying to mix itā¦your really going to have to like earthy flavorsā¦there is perfumy notes there ect.)
Soā¦if you have made it to the bottomā¦Lolā¦my recommendationsā¦
- Get some flavors from FA, maybe 1-2 from INW. (Are you restricted to TPA? can you down the road get FA)
- This should be number oneā¦research your next flavor buysā¦read up on every flavor you are going to buyā¦but the most top rated flavors.
- Buy flavors based on the top recipes and recipes you want to make.
- Get back to basics. Hopeful you are mixing by weight, shaking up all your flavors just prior to mixing.
If you say you could only buy 6 fa flavors in the near futureā¦I would say Vienna Cream FA, Fresh Cream FA, Marshmallow FA and then pick six fruits. Out of that you should be able to create three good basic fruit recipesā¦and you can start adding 1% tpa fruits and have off the wall fruit recipes.
Have a wonderful dayā¦I need to follow my own advice and start building my recipes for todayā¦just got mixing supplies in. I hope this helps.
11 Likes
Not trying to pat myself on the back here guys just saying I know they are good to vape cause I vape them. I really sounded conceited in my previous post
3 Likes
I donāt think I have anything to add really. Pro-Vapes and Chrispdx have said everything I would say to you. Take their advice, as these guys really know what they are talking about.
5 Likes
Those as well as Flavour Art and Flavorah, I have no experience with Inerwa to speak of so I canāt really go there.
Mixing fruits with creams, bakery and sweeteners helps curb sharp edges. I use Pyure a lot to knock the sharp edge off some recipes.
4 Likes
http://thee-cigshop.co.uk
They sell more concentrated flavours like Flavour art, Flavorah and Inawera.
1 Like
That is the protocol I used when I first started mixingā¦Kept experimentingā¦kept researchingā¦Then found the secret that worked for meā¦especially with the āperfumyā issueā¦FROTHINGā¦I got a little cheap dremel toolā¦put a 1/8 inch drill bit that comes with itā¦attached a drink mixing straw (cut in half and a quarter inch bend in it) Blue Diamond drink mixing straws available at Meijers in the picnic/cup isle
After dispensing my ingredients into my bottle, I frothed the mix until it was the consistency of beer foamā¦ Let it sit cap off for less than 12 hours (overnite) for it to re-liquifyā¦ In some instances I frothed again (will explain later)ā¦Cap back on, and steeped for minimum of 2 weeksā¦Flavorah flavors can get great results in 1 weekā¦During the 2 week period I re-visit my bottle daily and for the 1 week I squeezed the air out and let a little new air inā¦Cap back on, and back to my steep drawerā¦ I do not use speed steeping methodsā¦
Hereās why it works for meā¦ Flavor concentrates have flavor molecules which also incorporate substances I call āVolatilesāā¦ These volatiles are what I found to be giving me that perfumy problem that you are experiencingā¦By frothing and cap off and on routines, I found that I was able to rid my juice of the perfumy volatiles AND maintain the good flavor moleculesā¦the frothing also blends the flavor into the PG/VG mix as well as helps the volatiles have a good chance to escape the mixtureā¦I had to experiment with the cap on/ cap off time frames, but suffice it to say that 12 hours after frothing is a good timeframeā¦
For some flavors (my example here)ā¦ I will froth a second time ā¦ FA Forest Fruit is oneā¦
I am a high % mixer at 40/60 PG/VG mixing for MTL vaping at .8 to 1.1 Ohm buildsā¦which for me, requires higher flavor %s My FA Forest Fruit I mix at those base ratios at 15% flavor (many think I am crazy)ā¦ 
Howeverā¦with 2 Frothings and a 16 day steep protocolā¦ I get an extremely bold, tasty fruit vape which is smooth as silkā¦ and it has absolutely NO perfumy harshness at all
Flavorah Wild Melonā¦Grapeā¦ and a few other fruit flavors in the Flavorah Lineā¦ I mix at 8%ā¦froth 1 timeā¦cap off overniteā¦cap on in the morning and steep 4 - 7 daysā¦U********* believably beautiful vapeā¦
I wholeheartedly agree with Pro_Vapes experience/advice and others here for you to check out some other flavor brands that will get you some excellent resultsā¦Then you will gain some intuition that will allow you to get the previously failed flavors to work for youā¦For me it is all about the willingness to sometimes throw caution to the wind and play with extremesā¦The world will turn for youā¦
5 Likes
Actually a vape being bland doesnāt necessarily mean you need more flavor. This might sound odd but to much flavoring can have the opposite affect. For whatever reason every flavor has a ceiling and if you go over tht amount the flavor does down but smell goes up. You might want to try using less flavors or mixing in 20-30% more pg/vg to some current mixes. For tfa flavors my sweet spot is about 15%.
You might even want to start with super basic just do a single flavor start at 10% and work your way up till it tastes right. Thatās how i started in diy be4 i knew of any sites like elc. Than once i got single flavors down moved to dubble and still do tpa black cherry/sweettart is still a fav even yrs later. Also imo most recipes on elc have way to much flavoring. Hope that helps and it works for you gl.
5 Likes
I have a hard time tasting weak flavors due to sinus issues. When I started DIY, about 6 weeks ago, I started a thread about what to do. I got some great tips, and learned some stuff through experiencing my mixes.
To summarize, I mix a bottle per the recipe. I then adapt that recipe and increase the flavors by 40%, and make a bottle of that. Once thoroughly mixed, I mix 50/50 into a third bottle to get a batch at 120% flavor strength.
I put them away for 2 weeks of steeping and try them in an RDA, starting with the weakest one. I take some notes and rate the flavor quality and strength.
If needed, a week later I do it again. And another week later, I do it again.
Iāve found that some recipes change drastically over this month, especially with custards, desserts and weak fruit flavors. With several Iāve marked them ātastelessā or "perfumeyā or even āputridā after a week, but after 4 weeks the flavor has always improved. Some that I would have tossed after a week have become delicious after a month. Even the āputridā got upgraded to āOKā.
It helps to have 3 choices after a month, too. 
one of them is almost always good enough to finish. Iāve only come across 2, out of about 30 recipes, that I would toss after that month.
Some of the recipes made with extra flavoring need some tweaking, generally a reduction of stronger fruit flavors. So I may end up with a recipe with 130% of the non-fruit flavors and 110% of the fruit flavors.
I have found that the ones with strong fruit flavors more frequently take only 2 weeks to be vape-able, and the custard-types seem to take 4 or even 5 weeks.
And now, after about 6 weeks, Iām making up 15 recipes in big bottles, and Iāll do that again in 2 weeks, just in case I finish one too quickly. Waiting for a month of steeping can suck!
Donāt give up.
2 Likes
Did this one exactly as it states. Bland as hell and no hint of strawberry whatsoever."
Thatās exactly how Iād expect that one to taste too!!
Next to nothing. TPA flavors on average use around 6-8% each in my standalone flavor testing.
And they have to be monkeyād around with once you start combiningā¦ But that one just seems WAY light to me.
In my experience, anytime you get perfumey tastes, itās usually one of two reasons:
- You didnāt let it steep long enough
- You used too much flavor.
Sometimes it can be attributed to āfloral flavorsā though, and as a novice it would be easy to confuse the two (not saying you are, just putting it out there for general information).
Also, some flavors have alcohol, and those need to breathe (after the heat bath, if used) to allow the alcohol to āvent offā. The amount of time varies widely though, depending on both the amount of alcohol in a given flavor, and then the amount of that flavor used (read as: %).
Think of making eliquid as dining out or cooking.
Thereās some Chinese food places that you absolutely LOVE, and some that youād never step into again. They all have Fried Rice (a complete recipe) but some have more pork, or more peas, or more onionsā¦and some have none of these, and only brown the rice. Most are somewhere in between. Then you compound the situation with the types of rice (think brands), theyāre all the same āthingā (rice), but each one has itās own characteristics (hence why FA strawberry /= TFA strawberry, /= Ina strawberry, etc)
Best suggestion that I have is learn your flavors one at a time. See what percentage that one needs to make itself āpresentā without becoming offensive. THEN move to trying to combine two separate flavors, and see how those molecules interact. Some play well together, others fight like theyāre in prison ābeing stared at with a come hither lookā :panic:
Donāt give up if you havenāt ābeen luckyā picking a random (yet seemingly appropriately named) recipe. You can only begin to trust those recipes once you have learned your own preferences. THEN you can more easily guage how well you think someone elseās tastes (palate/flavor profile) are going to line up with your own.
Keep the faith, but invest the time into learning the basics. Otherwise youāll just waste alot of time, money, product, patience and good mood in the process.
You WILL BE successful in the long run (and sometimes the short too!) but if you want to really master a craft, you still have to put the effort in and āpay your duesā so to speak!
All the best,
Sprks
5 Likes
āreally sounded conceited in my previous post.ā
Bullshit.
You sounded really helpful in trying to get an emergency recipe set to someone in need, to help get them by until they can get the proper encouragement and support that they need in a moment of desperation.
No need to apologise.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled vape-gram. =P
6 Likes
Gee thanks Sparky, I just didnāt want to sound like because I wrote it itās good if you know what I mean. again thanks. And you is right I am just trying to help someone in the position most of us have been it in the beginning. I actually gave up DIY for over a year and now wish I hadnāt
1 Like
Middle_Finger_Salute, I feel ya. I am closer to your end of the spectrum than being a mix master. It wasnāt long ago that I was pondering the same thing you are. I learned so much just from this thread, thank you everyone! I tend to like realistic fruit and some candy flavors. For instance I love peach, a lot of the peach flavors are crap and no matter what I do they still taste like crap. At one point I gave up on peach. Then I found Inawera peach. Being so new to mixing I just figured you mix a fruit flavor in, shake it and done. Well it was ok once I got the percentage right, but once I got bold enough and added both sour and sweetenerā¦ oh man its the peach I had always dreamed of. It kind of set my mind in a new direction and gave me a big shot of confidence when I thought I could never do anything right. So donāt give up, hopefully soon something will click for you and it will change your way of looking at things.
3 Likes
Something along those lines. I used Guava for the sour and Pyure for the sweetener in a yogurt base.
2 Likes
@Middle_Finger_Salute All the information you could ever dream of needing is here for the asking. So donāt Give up. Just hang around and ask ask ask. Thatās what we did. One day soon somebody will ask a question and you have it answered before you realize. Then comes that feeling of wow I helped somebody. I knew the answer. Itās a pretty awesome feeling, just ask anyone of the master mxers here, like @Alisa, @SthrnMixer, @Pro_Vapes or @mikelej14 theyāll remember their first WOW feeling
5 Likes
That sounds really delicious, makes my mouth water, thanks for sharing!
That is something Iām good at if youād like a few recommendations just let me know
1 Like
I am honored you would consider me a master mixer Thank you. In honesty i have only been mixing since March. But, I have been relentless with it and have made it an obsession beyond a hobby for me, and absorbed as much information and put a great deal of time and effort into learning each flavor I have, and always studying and learning more everyday. There is still much I do not know. The thing I hope @Middle_Finger_Salute understands is this craft takes patience and a lot of time and effort. Believe me, i have had my share of disgusting and horrific creations thru my process of learning. Only now months later I am more comfortable and able to whip things up on a whim and be fairly successful. On average though, most recipes that are 4+ ingedients will end up becoming a third or fourth version before i am ready to make it public, and even then, some just arent what i want and i scrap it and start back at square oneā¦ Trial and errorā¦ Mostly error. My best advice is just keep making disgusting mixes. Pay attention to it and discover why it is disgusting and once you know, youll better know how to make something good some of the best mixes I have were by accident.
1 Like
You make me laugh, I go through about half of one of those cheap dollar store notebooks with notes and thoughts and possibilities before I even get to the computer and the table format that I use in word. Then I usually go through about 4 to 6 versions before I make more than 15 ml. and I make 15 ml so I can set it up in thirds. I generally start trying it at the earliest date I consider bare minimum for that type of juice. I test on my Neptune Hybrid mod at .18 ohms with a full battery and never vape over 1 ml per tasting making notes as I vape. noting the difference as the mod and juice warms up, the highs and lows of the juice what I think needs to be done to it to improve it. Next round Iāll vape it on a mech with a Tobeco Turbo atty at .20 this occours at a week after the minimum and last but not least I vape it on my maganus on top of my XCube II. Then I compare notes and go about changing it as I see fit to do it again. On rare occasions It hits right out of the gate and I faint.
2 Likes