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Very specific cream used in almost all premium liquids


Nice work @TheFlavorSeeker Lemon juice has been mentioned before, but I’m wondering what delivers the result and wondering if natural lemon juice might be a little too “natural” (contain some sugar). Citric Acid tastes just like lemon (Koolaid powder) and can be bought at Walmart next to the canning jars (used for canning tomatoes). 8 oz of powder is like $3, and would make a ton of PG solution and have no “natural” contents. Also available from Vendors.

Lychee has also been mentioned and is available as a CAP flavoring used for this exact reason in existing recipes http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavor/8953 (read “recipes” below in this link). I like the idea of getting Lychee as a juice from the source, but have same concerns re: “natural” contents of a juice …interesting. Clearly there would need to be several of these type enhancers.


I very recently learned about “FA Magic Mask” & “TFA Smooth”:

FA Magic Mask

“Reduce the acid perception without modifying the pH.
pH is one of the key factors involved in food stability.
In order to reduce the pH, a small amount of organic acid must be added to the food preparation (i.e. citric, malic, tartaric acid).
In most cases the addition of food acid is beneficial both for microbiological stability and taste ( just think to an lemon or cola drink, they must be acid to be good ).
However, someother foods might require food acid for microbiological safety BUT the acid taste does not complement well ( a light cheese, a sauce as example).
In this case, the use of Magic Mask can be of help.
Magic Mask does not buffer the pH, nor alter it.
Magic Mask acts at the tongue receptors level, temporarily reducing the acid perception, thus improving the overall mouth feel.
Its action last 5-8 seconds and involve only the acid receptors.
Recommended dosage is 1 up to 3 grams for Kg food.
When comparing products with and without Magic Mask, the food with Magic Mask must be tasted as second. Give it a try.”

TFA Smooth:

“A flavor smoothener that is useful to use in concert with other flavors- “Smooth” will round out any harsh edges and provide a thick, satisfying mouthfeel. It will soften the high notes of your blend while boosting your background notes.
*** Note: some, but not all customers report that the smell has a fruity aspect.”

Maybe someone with experience of these can comment?


thanks @BoDarc. just clarifying
in the first case, what i used is a PG-based Lemon “cooking” flavor - it’s not as concentrated as TPA or FA. it’s sold here in the local market and is used for juice and food flavoring, no coloring. Artifical Flavoring + PG is what’s written on the bottle. i diluted it further with a PG/VG 30/70 mix. think i had 20% lemon to 80% PG/VG - it’s very “weak” but still pleasant to vape on it’s own

in the 2nd case, the Lychee is already an eliquid - 0 Nic - made by a company called Phoenix

i’m looking forward to my next TPA order - already added Lychee, Dragon Fruit, Marshmallow, Cotton Candy (EM) and will add Lemon flavors in the shopping basket - @Grubby, guess i’ll pass on the Magic Mask and Smooth - i didn’t like some of the feedback in other threads on these

i also recently started experimenting with adding 2% Vanilla Bean Ice Cream to fruit mixes. smoothes them nicely - but adds to steeping time. all good learning… i feel like in primary school again :slight_smile:


I have found that out of all the Mothers milk clones I have tried, the ones with VBIC definitely have a better mouth feel, almost velvety, really interested in the Lemon cooking flavour though…:+1:


This Thread is all about cracking the friggin’ code. Info also critical deciphering clones. I almost thought of starting a new thread, but I decided my idea fits right here. I think many members have that Holy Grail clone …a couple tests steeping in the closet? …version 16 of some uncrackable commercial Juice no one else has been able to clone/post to the DIY Community either?

I had a dream …yeah I know weird, but in it was a process for cracking the code! I’m going to call it “Picking the Flavor Lock”. Recent convos on the Forum and in IRC have been about how two flavors can become one, making them undecipherable in simple taste testing. This is how locks work. All the pins work against you until they all line up, so how do you apply this to Juice cloning? How can you line up each pin?

For the folks with a closet full of clone attempts …you are sure you know FlavorX is in JuiceC…“I got it 80%!” See? you think you have 4 of the 5 pins correct but the final flavor eludes …you buy more flavors …more tests …but what if one of the 80% is wrong? You’ll never get pin #5

My process is about validating the 80%. If you in fact had 4 out of 5 right you could more likely succeed. I also think you could use this to totally crack any juice from the start (!) I’m keeping to this thread because #5 could be simply saline or coconut or white chocolate or lemon juice …you get the idea. OK here it is “Picking the Flavor Lock” hope it makes sense.

Step #1 buy your commercial target juice.

Step#2 Start with a nice clean re-wicked RDA (dripper) and add a small amount of that commercial juice.

Step#3 This is the tricky part. Make some small amounts (10mls) of your known flavors (that 80%?) with your standard base, like a single flavor tester. You may already have these, and steeped SFTs would be ideal. Concentration for these testers? Just follow your own Single Flavor Test %s (3-5%?) depending on the flavor. One flavor at a time, add a drop or two to that commercial target loaded RDA and vape. This testing is about discerning how each test flavor moves the flavor meter.

Step#4 So you think this recipe has Dragonfruit? by adding a drop of diluted Dragonfruit to your loaded RDA you should notice either a slight flavor change or a dramatic one. If by adding a small amount of Dragonfruit you radically tilt the flavor …your guess is likely incorrect. If the flavor only gets moved a small amount …you are probably correct …just like picking a lock.

Step#5 Vape that RDA close to dry, reload with your commercial juice (see why I recommended using a little?), and repeat with Guess #2 #3 #4 and see how those other flavors “move the needle” I think this may also help to expose some of those hidden flavor pairs, similar to what people have experienced changing temp and wattage, or vaping down to the dry hit. The concept is you are tapping at each pin (flavor!) and knowing if you’re closer or farther using the original lock.

Clone Deconstruction - Picking the Flavor Lock
Vape Mail 2017!

I like this idea! You just might be onto something.


Zillion likes to you @BoDarc for sharing this “lock picking” technique. great learning for a newbie like me. thank you.

here’s another thought - cloning is a very advanced level in mixing, i guess - how about, if you like - or think you like - a certain flavor - say a certain ice cream, or for me, home-made vanilla custard or the classic “cream caramel” - and you decide you want to create a vaping recipe that “simulates” it as an eliquid - what would be some of the tricks you should know and do?

i guess most of us who start vaping, go that route. i think i like blueberry ice cream, I get online, buy some flavors, wait excitedly for the shipment, start mixing, and then, booom, the shock ! i’m sooo OFF:)


aaand do you even have a Unicorn…:neutral_face:


Well I do that too. I test live with a steeped juice. I make 120s of Custards which take 1 month+ to steep, then I add other flavors live to work on more complex recipes or just get some inspiration


Oh and BTW I just had the idea so it’s not tested, I just think it might be useful …time will tell


i think it makes a lot of sense. it’s like testing “color combination” - if you add a certain color to the base, and the result is too far off from what you need to get to, you track back your steps and try another one …

what i’m researching now, is which flavors “cancel” each other, and which ones “support” each other - and which ones “totally blend” to produce a new flavor - a topic for another thread maybe not to take this too far off the OP


Nice post bud, I actually have been trying something similar, but with finger tastes. Same concept though. With the blend I’m working on it has helped a bit, nothing spectacular however.

I also think having others help pick out differences with your clone attempts and the original is extremely helpful. I know I have been stuck with incorrect flavours in clone attempts thinking that they fit when in reality i’m just getting vapors fatigue, and cant taste shit anymore hahah.


Smart way to think about it. Maybe ELR needs a Flavor Wheel… a different way to view exactly what you are talking about. For my lock pick idea your “color” concept would apply. I mean if someone showed you purple would you know to combine red and blue? …and if you took some purple and added green, you would get brown …but if you added some more red it would just be a slightly different shade of purple. Whos up for converting the Flavor Bible into the Flavor Wheel?

Also props given to @Ghettotrout for poking at my brain with his own personal quest for flavor decryption and prompting a weird dream about DIY …there that didn’t sound too Bromantic, eh? :sunglasses: Cheers! :beers:


sounds like “church of the little blue screwdriver” just found its first minister!


BoDarc is wise…BoDarc is powerful…BoDarc will show us the way…
Plus…he looks really cheeky and fluffy :grin:


Ya’ll watched AMC’s Preacher right? This will end similarly…


No updates on this thread i see. pitty


i’ll take a wild guess, the secret ingredient is (was) … CAP Butter Cream ? :slight_smile:
(which i haven’t tried yet)


Many clones i have tried to nail down, seems to be using butter cream actually… Maybe not all. But there is quite a few of them. Its a good flavor imo


And lets use pancake man as a exaple. I have tried to clone this juice for a while now. And People vaping it, know that it has a particular creamy note too it. My findings is that the creamy note in pancake man, really reminds me of “Strawberries & cream” By REAL FLAVORS. I get the excact same notes and that very destinct note you get from pancake man. That aroma by it self, even makes up for 50% of the pancake man flavor notes almost. I think many Companies are using thing like this. A aroma that is a combination of 2 or more flavors. Like the Strawberries and cream, from real flavors.