Peace out Ken! I’m reading this while I once again sample Alisa’s “Just Cheesecake”, 20.5% including 10% Cheesecake. I’m at 48 days steep and it’s virtually blank. This must be why I’m not a wine taster.
I’m fighting back tears. This is where now I’m wanting to go to a vape shop and sample their best cheesecake. But if I can taste it, then what in the world is the difference between theirs and mine??? But the question is moot before I go and try and get a result. Tomorrow’s Saturday…
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That recipe is using a lot of flavor % again and each and every one of those flavors contains a lot of muting agents (EM, maltol, Vanillin, etc). Steeping these will mute your flavors more and more over time…
If you want strong tasting flavors, I advise you to use way lower %, not steep as long and/or use other brands of flavors (like Flavorah, Real Flavors, Medicin Flower, …). Stop using EM/Maltol/Vanillin and use sucralose or stevia for sweetening effects.
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You might have a similar issue as I. Please conduct a sensory experiment as follows: Go to your kitchen and smell items in your kitchen such as pickles, banana, licorice and cinnamon. You will have to pick pungent foods that you can remember smelling years back. Let me know how that goes and if you think by memory that you may have a diminished sense of smell. But don’t be sad lets experiment, pm me if you wish the results of your experiments.
Also if you don’t mind me asking are you a Mr. or a Ms. and what is your age?
If you like this flavor profile, make a one shot from it and mix that at 10%, see how it turns out. Make another batch at 15% and see how that turns out. You already tried the 20% and know that doesn’t keep its flavor very well.
Do some tests in a dripper during the steeping process and make notes to keep track of the evolution.
I would go for the least amount of flavor that is vapable and if necessary, add a little sucralose (super sweet) to make it pop a bit more, but start very low and build up. Less is more, especially with TPA flavors.
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Gee wiz it gets more complicated…
Ok well for a start, Alisa recommends 5+ days steep, and you’re suggesting muting over time. First thing I can do is run a single flavor trial of my cheesecakes - I have CAP NY Cheesecake and TPA Cheesecake Graham Crust. Run the trial and sample at short intervals.
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Ran around smelling things and as far as I can tell I’m smelling everything fine. It’s conceivable that with absolutely no reference point a person might possibly be smelling at 30% of average and not be aware of it.
I’m a guy and don’t tell anybody but I’m a very young 52.
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We’re talking the same language. And somebody else suggested sucralose (or maybe it was you, last week). Funny, I have Joy, MTS and AP (and Cotton Candy TPA - that’s EM, right?) but no sucralose. I’ll run trials on the cheesecakes and I guess I should do the CAP Vanilla Custard V1 too.
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Yes, Cotton Candy is Ethyl Maltol or EM (usually 10%), Sweetener is Maltol and Sucralose.
You can make your own sucralose concentrate by desolving sucralose crystals in PG, you can buy Super Sweet (CAP) which is Sucralose, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate or if you want another brand, check the ingredients first.
Sucralose is a coil killer and the burnt residue on your coils can give off some nasty chemicals when heated up, so don’t overdo it.
Stevia (or pyure concentrate) is a less dangerous alternative but IMO, it doesn’t really go with every recipe, more suitable for fruity mixes.
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Ken…I can taste Custard, dont worry about that im in absolute love with the stuff, just not my own, ive been mixing now for over 8 months and ive tried so many variations with vc1 and i just dont know where else to turn other than not trying it at 10%. ive tried it with NYCC creams meringues at different levels for up to 8-10weeks… but i wont give up…lol i will succeed, there have been a couple of commercial custards which i can taste but thats not where i want to have to go for a good custard.
Yup. Some folks do 10%. But I would recommend a different custard. Some love cap’s, but I am one who can stand it. I personally get off notes of dirty Carmel and burnt stuff. My go to in custard inw. Sadly it’s not the same as cap, but for me it’s much much better.
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i had a strange experience couple of days ago, reminded me of this thread so decided to come back and share maybe it helps.
i opened a bottle of a simple Tangerine Custard mix that’s been steeping for about 3 weeks - had a lot of hopes for it (i love that mix, but was testing with new flavor brands) - the first 2 puffs, very strong and sweet flavor as expected, then after that, flavor is completely gone… ! i get nothing from it… here’s the funny thing, i vape something else for a while then come back to it, the same thing again, first couple of buffs, heaven, then gone… 
i think what’s happening here is because the mix is over-flavored - for my taste - my taste “shuts down” and need a reset. it’s like when you hear a very loud music/noise, or get your eye exposed to a lot of sun light, your systems attempt to adjust your sensory level. to confirm, i watered down the mix with a clear base, let the new “diluted” mix steep for a day then vaped it, and it’s awesome.
total flavor % in the original mix was ~7% … used a mix of FA custard prem + CAP VC1 + Tanger , so now the new mix is less than 4% flavor … interesting. never thought i would be vaping that low flavor %
i suggest you don’t discount the effect of over flavoring on muting taste or actually shutting down your sense of taste - good thing it would reset shortly after you eat or drink something like coffee.
simple test: start with a clean base, 60/40 VG/PG, no nic, single flavor 5% (to 7%) CAP VC1 or Cheesecake - in a small glass cup, stir (yes, like making tea, i don’t believe in shaking anymore), then smell it, drop-taste it, then try to vape and see if you get better taste at low % - also your set up (tank, coil, wicking…) will play a big role here. some of us use “heavy setups” that will magnify the flavor (vaporize more juice per a single buff) and we don’t necessarily note that along with the recipes … roughly speaking, when i use a tank that has 2 x fat fused SS claptons, i would be consuming maybe 2-4 times (rough guess) the juice per buff vs a single simple Kanthal wire of few wraps.
Good luck and pls let us know how it goes…
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Care to elaborate?
I’ve never had an issue with shaking, even max VG and I’m always using 100% VG nic
On the other hand, I’ve also never tried stirring or whatever other methods people use these days, as I haven’t seen a reason to. As long as my muscles can do the job, I’m happy to continue.
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TFS - Ok thanks for the crystal clear, concise post here. It’s starting to sink in. The story you just told paints a pretty good picture. I’ve got some more testing to do.
And thanks so far to everyone here. You’all are pretty awesome. I’m glad I’m here.
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@anon28032772, i tried various “mix and vape” methods, shaking in the bottle, frothing, heating, …etc - the one that gave me best homogeneous result is mixing in a small cup (depends on the amount i’m mixing) then simply stirring with a spoon until all the juice is uniform. this also gives me a chance to “drop taste” and add more flavors or accents if i think the end result can be better. the last thing i add is nic, then one final stir, then juice goes in the bottle for steeping.
when i mix direct in the bottle, i can see that with shaking, i still see the various liquids separate inside, and a lot of air bubbles - i don;t want these. i thought of how we dissolve sugar in tea or coffee, and how stirring would be more effective than shaking the sugar within the coffee …
i think some mixers here use this approach.
i find more fun to mix and stir in the cup - i usually mix 5 or 6 bottles only per session… so doesn’t take more time and for me the results are usually better if i want to vape some samples right after mixing
[sorry for derailing thread]
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Well alright then. Last Saturday I took a walk to a couple vape shops. Cloud99 in the East Village is set up like a self-serve vape bar/sample counter, and the girl there was so happy to help. She must have had me sample like 20 juices, trying to see what I can actually taste. Nope on most of them! No creams, custards, cheesecake. So I answered one great big question: it’s not my mixing methods or my recipes or my equipment or my build. It’s my sense of taste/olfactory or whatever.
If it wasn’t for Inawera Biscuit recipes (and fruit flavors) I’d be on Marlboros right now.
I can only hope that whatever isn’t working will fix itself. It’s possible. Fruits as they are are just fine. But what I REALLY want I can’t taste. I sure can taste REAL cheesecake, ice cream, etc. Hell I used to eat cereal sometimes with 50/50 whole milk and Half & Half.
One great thing came out of it. I sampled a cornbread juice that was pretty awesome. Now I’ve got Cornbread (OOO) and Sweet Corn (Health Cabin, HC) on the way!
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Sadly. Some of us don’t taste creams very well either. I guess this is where “taste is subjective” comes into play. But there is good news, the more flavors you try the better chance you have of finding a cream that works ok, a custard that is better than most (for you), and so on.
Just keep at it. As for custards I really like inw’s.
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Well then, isn’t that something -
Tasted this old batch (translation: “steeping”) of Alisa’s “Just Cheesecake” at 69 days and I almost fell off my chair when I tasted cheese. Can’t say I liked what I tasted - Just funky cheese, not a delicious sweetish desert-like Philly Cream Cheese mixture. Just funky cheese. But I’m amazed that one component of a flavor came through.
Good thing I’m not really throwing anything out. So the drama continues!
Besides that I’m subsisting on Inawera Biscuit recipes and a couple fruit concoctions. Versions of a Peach Ice Cream, Jammy Dodgers and Aftermath are pretty awesome. Oh, and coffee recipes. I suspect I don’t taste some of what these recipes have to offer, but there’s enough there to be really good. Haven’t yet had anything at all that distinctly tastes like cream or custard, but doing well enough.
Just sayin. But thanks everyone for the discussion.
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