Clapton Wire

[Phil_Critch]

Hello all.
Any question isn’t a stupid question as they say.
I’ve been using regular parallel Clapton for some time now on most of my builds.

But I was given a flat Clapton coil to use. It looks very similar to the fused Clapton. I really like these coils, they don’t gunk up like the parallel Clapton.
What is the difference between fused and flat to the eye the ones I’ve been given, appear no difference really and I’ve got to say the flavour and cloud production is awesome and they require less cleaning.
Therefore I’m looking to buy a spool of either.
Can anyone advise me on the difference and which is best?

Thanks in advance Phil

[TheTinMan]

Maybe @Dan_the_Man can help.he is a pretty good coil builder.

I’m thinking that a fused clapton uses 2-4 round wires as it’s core and the flat clapton uses flat ribbon wire as it core. I could be wrong.

[anon28032772]

A flat clapton, or a flapton as they say, is indeed a ribbon or flat wire that is claptonned (wrapped around with a thinner wire).
I’ve used both fused clapton and flaptons, clouds and flavor are pretty similar to me but I don’t like the springiness from a flapton. It’s much more difficult to wrap your coil with it IMO.
Obviously, reading from your post, opinions differ.

Not sure if you make your own coil (or whether you have an interest in it), whether you buy a spool of (fused) clapton or flapton wire or ready made coils.
This is the more popular, readily available stuff we can get here
https://www.evolutionvaping.co.uk/flapton-by-flatwire-10ft.html
You may have a wider choice available where you are.

It is relatively easy to make yourself though.

[Sprkslfly]

@Phil_Critch

Can anyone advise me on the difference and which is best?

It’s my opinion you’re discussing three different types of coils (and I can’t tell if that is your intention or not).

“Best” is a moot point, as perception would hinge on the desired result. So I’ll forego that for now and leave that for the individual user to decide.

To clarify (at least my perspective) of the three types mentioned:

Parallel coil

• Most accomplish this by using two separate wires cut to the same length, and then wrapping them side by side (adjacent to each other) simultaneously.

• When a ‘single’ wire is used and folded back alongside itself (to halve the impedance). *Which is something I do [this reduces the time to heat (compared to the similar mass of a fused clapton), while maintaining the doubled surface area.] I use a ‘single’ clapton wire (26/36 SS) to do this.

Fused Clapton:

• is when you have (as mentioned) two or more cores, which are then wrapped together using (typically) a single thinner wire. (EG: 2x26/36)

When comparing the two above examples to one another (performance under actual usage conditions), both have nearly the same mass and surface area, and the impedance is typically within 0.03-0.07 ohms. (When using the same ID, and same number of wraps)

EG: the parallel may ohm out to 0.17-0.19 (depending on leg length), and the Fused (2x26/36) may read 0.20-0.23 ohms.

However, the parallel coil fires (gets up to temp) noticeably faster (on the same mod/atty) in my experience.

Flat wire:
Adding flat wire to a coil adds substantially more surface area and mass, so will require ‘either’ more power, or more time to heat the added surface area. The goal here is to increase vapor production (and by some accounts, an increase in flavor*).

*I say ‘some accounts’ above, because it’s my opinion that the atty/mod plays a larger role more often than the simple increase in surface area alone. But it can also be a very true statement (bearing in mind the hardware), so it shouldn’t be immediately nor summarily dismissed when you see such a claim IMO.

@Phil_Critch

What is the difference between fused and flat to the eye

At any rate, flat wire is easy to ID visually.
It’s a singular, wide, flat wire.

Fused is three (or more) wires, which can have the appearance of being flat (usually only in the case of a dual-fused), but there are actually three wires minimum.

@Phil_Critch

the ones I’ve been given, appear no difference really

This makes me think you’re speaking about something altogether different, because there’s really no way to confuse a single solid flat wire with a round one (or even a group of round ones). Much less a group of round ones with a single wide flat one threaded into them.

There’s SO many coil types, much less the creative names (names contrived out of thin air) that accompany, that it’s understandable that someone could get confused about all this. So don’t feel bad if it’s a communication error (whether it’s you or me! lol)

@Phil_Critch

they require less cleaning.

IMO, the only way this could change is if different wire types are used/mixed.

If both coils (regardless of clapton, fused, or parallel) are made of SS, there should be no difference in which one ‘gunks up’ faster at the same impedance, and at the same power/TC and using the same liquid!

If coil materials are mixed (or vary from one coil to another, complex coil or not) then you’re no longer comparing apples to apples. So all bets are off.

Hopefully this helps.
Clarify if need be. Bop me on the noggin if I’m completely missing your question.

[Sprkslfly]

@Sprkslfly

If both coils (regardless of clapton, fused, or parallel) are made of SS, there should be no difference in which one ‘gunks up’ faster

I meant to say “the same material” (in place of SS).

[Phil_Critch]

I make my own. I think I’ll go for fused Clapton then, based on what you’ve said

[Phil_Critch]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge. What’s the difference in the fused Clapton in respect of 24awg, 26awg, 28awg?

[Sprkslfly]

No apologies necessary.
In short, the size of the wire.

AWG = American Wire Guage

American wire gauge

@Phil_Critch

What’s the difference in the fused Clapton

In fused clapton in particular, it means the size of the cores, and is followed by the wrap:

EG:
2x26/32 = 2 cores of 26awg, wrapped with 32awg

4x28/36 = 4 cores of 28ga, wrapped with 36

Etc

[Phil_Critch]

Thanks for that. So in respect of coil building for flavour etc. Which would be the best AWG 24,26, or 28

[Sprkslfly]

@Phil_Critch

So in respect of coil building for flavour etc. Which would be the best

@Sprkslfly

“Best” is a moot point, as perception would hinge on the desired result.

You’re just going to have to experiment a bit as you start out to see what you’re looking for, and how it interacts with your hardware.

@Sprkslfly

I use a ‘single’ {paralleled} clapton wire (26/36 SS) to do this.

I’ve also been using dual fused 2x26/36 to compare, and my preference is the paralleled variation, in my atty, and on my mod.

The coil/atty/mod all work hand in hand and affect the overall performance (delivery of the vape).

I like a steady temp, from start to finish, and usually take 7 second long pulls.

Some like an initial blast of heat, and then taper off to something cooler.

Some like it cool to start, and finish up with a medium temp/power.

Etc etc.

My suggestion would be to describe how you prefer to vape, and get some input from folks who not only vape like you do. But also on similar hardware (if possible).

Include things like: temp/power settings, mod, atty(atties), duration, and wire type(s). EG: kanthal, ss, Ti, etc.

[Phil_Critch]

I use the Dovpo Dual Topside squonk around 90-100 watts, I’d like to say it’s a steady temp, but does heat up slightly towards the end of the pull around 4 seconds. KA1 and SS

[Phil_Critch]

Is use this for the majority of my coils. But I like this premade I was given, which I’m lead to believe it’s fused or flat clapton

[Phil_Critch]

[Sprkslfly]

Ok… That’s a good start! (meaning the info in the last two posts)

That’s extremely hot for my tastes. So unlikely to be able to help (at least with specifics).

But I can clarify some for you…

It’s considered fused. Even though it appears flat. (the wires inside are round, as is the wrap)

The roll pictured above reads like it’s ONLY kanthal (and not a mix of wire types).
Further, they write it differently, but in keeping with the above examples, you can also express it like this: 2x26/32 (which funnily enough, was an example I used before!

Yours has no SS involved though (at least on the pic shown above).

But you do need to watch closely when it comes time to buy, because there are vendors who sell mixed wire types (because that’s what some want).

Hang tight, and I’m sure you’ll get some good suggestions on ways to go/things to try.

Again, atty info would help though, they play their part as well.

[Sprkslfly]

Bad picture for an example… But the outermost wire is a flat (aka ribbon) wire.

Then you have three claptons (one that you can’t see, under the top two) inside of the flat wire… (praying this doesn’t further confuse you)

[anon28032772]

Coil building is a lot like mixing your e-liquids… different people like different things and there’s no wrong or right as long as you stay within the safety limits of your mod and batteries.

Which AWG you’re going to work best for you is something you’ll find out through experimentation. If you’re thinking about building a certain coil, it’s always a good idea to check on steam-engine.org to find out if it even makes sense to build that coil for your setup.

Besides the width of your wire, other factors play a role. Which material are you going to use and why. Kanthal, Ni80 (nichrome), stainless steel, titanium, nickle, or even some other less common alloys that you can find for sale, they all have different properties and may or may not be for you.
Some of these wires can do temperature control (or replay), others can’t. Some retain heat a lot more and others cool off pretty much instantly. The flavor that you get on all these metals are noticeably different as well… and then you could make hybrid coils where you wrap your cores in a different material from your cores.

I’d say however, that the main factor in deciding your wire thickness, should be your desired resistance and the type of coil that you’re after.
If you want a 4 core fused clapton for a nice and wide coil, you’re probably not going to be able to use a 24g wire in stainless steel. It would result in such low resistance that it wouldn’t be safe to vape on most mods. In stainless steel, I usually go for a dual core with 26g or a triple/quad core with 28g.
The wrap you put around it, isn’t going to do much about the resistance, but it is defining in how much heat your coil will retain after you’ve vaped. A thicker wrap will give you more contact surface but it can be annoying how much longer it takes for your coil to cool down. Just 2 gauges difference can make a massive impact on the total mass of your coil.
The “rule” I heard when I started, was to keep your wrap at least 6 guages higher than your core. So for a 26g core, you wouldn’t take anything less than a 32g wrap. You can go as fine as you can but I think most people here probably use somewhere between a 32g and 40g, depending on their skills, tools and how good their eyes are.

The intention of a special coil vs round wire coil, is that you have more contact surface with the liquid, hence you vaporise more liquid which should give you more vapor and more flavor molecules that you can taste.
You can achieve this goal by using more metal. The result of this is that it takes more energy to heat up and the more massive a coil is, the longer it will take to cool down as well. Like I said before, different metals have different properties, but if you compare with the same metal of your choice, the more massive coil will always take more time and energy to heat and needs to dissipate that to cool down.
The other way of achieving this goal, is to use a metal wire with more contact surface like a ribbon, flattened wire or by using smaller round wires and combining them so that you create crevices in the build. E.g. a quad core fused clapton vs a dual core fused clapton (both with the same mass), then the quad core will have a bigger surface area because it’s flatter and wider, it will have more crevices but the trade off is that it’s more difficult to build. Not only is it finer wire but you also have to keep the round cores straight next to each other. It’s easy to turn it into a quad core twisted coil which will reduce the surface area and give you a completely different vaping experience.

You just have to experiment, see what works for you and you’ll have to weigh off how much time you’re going to put in building your coils, see how much difference the different builds give you, which material you prefer to vape on or work with, what the resulting resistance is, battery life, vape experience, … it’s all a very personal choice and just like with making e-liquids, it takes a couple tries to find out what is right for you. Over time when you get more experience and more & better tools, you’ll find it easier to make builds with a higher level of difficulty that may perform or look better.

[SessionDrummer]

@Phil_Critch

Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

@Sprkslfly is right …

@Sprkslfly

No apologies necessary.

You are in the RIGHT place FOR the questions !!

[Phil_Critch]

I’ve just bought some of them ready made. Can’t wait to test them. They are going in my drop dead as soon as I’ve finished the last of the current juice I’m vaping which will be within the next hour or two.

[Phil_Critch]

It’s quite therapeutic coil making and changing. Time to get the kit out

[GuernseyNick]

What is it called when you get 4 sinhle core claptons in a bunch and clapton them all together.