I have a Samsung 30T, 21700 that I bought in June. It’s been used steadily along with others. Today it just stopped working. I put it into two mods and get nothing. I put it in the charger and it reads 99%. Other batteries are working so it’s not the mods. In 4 years of vaping I’ve never seen this. Does anyone have any idea of what happened?
That’s a job for Battery Mooch! He’s got a FB page and he does answer questions. That sounds odd to me and I wouldn’t want to guess when it comes to batteries. I take them seriously. If you’re not on FB I’ll propose the question for you if you want.
ETA: Btw, I left my 30T in a mod that was powered off but I left the atty on and that’s a no no because boards can continue reading the resistance even when powered down and that will eventually drain the batt. My 30T got completely discharged and I am not happy about that. They’re not cheap.
Just reaching here, but did you look at the battery’s wrap? Any chance something is off there? It’s strange that you get no life in a mod, but you do on the charger. I’m thinking that maybe the wrap is nicked and making contact with the mods metal walls and the mod is in battery protect mode? I dunno…
How is the top and bottom of the battery? Any dents?
It’s odd, indeed. There was no damage or wear and tear on it. It looked brand new. I did throw it away as I’ve seen enough to respect what could happen. At $6 each it’s easily replaced.
I’m no Mooch but it sounds like the battery has an “open” in the mechanical structure. There can be a separation failure causing sudden and complete shut down. Analogous to a fuse that has done its job opening the circuit for good until the circuit is repaired with a new fuse. Only instead of a replaceable fuse it’s the physical connection of either the Anode(negative electrode) or the Cathode (positive electrode). I would bet it’s most likely a manufacturing defect unless the battery has endured the following most common causes of failure as listed below or perhaps mechanical shock such as dropping the battery on a hard surface or subjecting it to high pressure force resulting in physical deformation, such as an Elephant standing on the battery.
The most common causes of degradation:
- Leaving a cell at full charge in high heat(50 - 60 deg C is the base of the sever damage zone)
- Rapid charge
- Excessive cycling
Here is an Article from battery university, my go-to source aside from Mooch. I’ve pasted an excerpt below.
During charge, lithium gravitates to the graphite anode (negative electrode) and the voltage potential changes. Removing the lithium again during discharge does not reset the battery fully. A film consisting of lithium atoms forms on the surface of the anode called solid electrolyte interface (SEI). Composed of lithium oxide and lithium carbonate, the SEI layer grows as the battery cycles. The film gets thicker and eventually forms a barrier that obstructs interaction with graphite.
The cathode (positive electrode) develops a similar restrictive layer known as electrolyte oxidation. Dr. Dahn stresses that a voltage above 4.10V/cell at high heat causes this, a demise that can be more harmful than cycling. The longer the battery stays in this condition, the worse the degradation gets. The build-up can result in a sudden capacity loss that is difficult to predict by cycling alone. This phenomenon had been known for some years but measuring the coulombic efficiency can verify these effects in a more scientific and systematic manner.
Very interesting info, thanks.
@natbone I’ve never seen one just QUIT, unless it vented. I love my batt chargers, but once I smell something fishy, I break out my Fluke meter, as I trust it a LOT more. I’d be curious to see what actual voltage was on the cell, and then again, under charge, and load, but that get more involved than you may want to. Any bulging / swelling on the cell ?? Torn wrapper, top separation ??
Yup, had one do that. Can’t remember what the charger indicated. No idea how old it was. But, yes, it just quit. Threw it out.
There was absolutely nothing different or abnormal about it. I’ve dropped and dented batteries and then dumped then. It looked brand new. As I said, I just got rid of it thinking it’s a one-off occurrence. If it happens again then it’ll have my full attention.
My somewhat lay-mans, only semi-educated guess is:
Positive to Negative short == extreme energy release + rapid high-heating == Vent
Positive and/or Negative open == Nothing but a useless battery that is neither charging not discharging
I was also thinking a battery that suddenly stops working was a one in a million occurance but @SmilingOgre had the same so two in a million
If it was an open circuit, I don’t think the charger would (or should) read 99%.
I also meant to say that a battery is really a very simple device as far as mechanical assembly goes. It’s a sandwich of at least two different sheets of material and a layer or two of a gell or paste material, all having unique electrical properties rolled up and stuffed in a tube. Add separate positive and negative connections to the correct opposing layers of the sandwich roll with everything insulated. That’s it. Not a large parts count and no purposefully moving parts.
OK, I think I found the problem. Tonight it happened again. This time when I put the battery in the charger it read 0% and 1.6v. It happened with the same mod, a Topside. I tend to leave them on so I suspect that it was slightly drawing on the battery. So, I’m retiring the mod.