Amusing thread.
Now, I’ve gotta go mix some solo Cap Bavarian Cream so I know it alone and it had better taste as good as Capellas marketing photo.
Godamn: real Bavarian Cream looks awesome.
Maybe you just suck at mixing flavours?
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Well I have NO experience with any commercial juices. Never had that crap in 3 years of vaping, DIY all the way!
To use your analogy related to cars, would an old mechanic that can build a car from the ground up go out and buy a Ferrari of the showroom floor? Maybe, but I say unlikely!
They can build that old Ford up to just how they want with any customization of that so called shit box. Therefore making it their creation in some ways.
It’s a craft that takes knowledge, skill and dedication, much like this DIY caper.
My theory when I started vaping and then mixing when I started was if I can bake a cake why would I buy a cake. My cake tastes better anyway!
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@muth
Thanks for your kind response and the good experience. Hey, can you share maybe that coffee recipe wit others? I’ve never tried a coffee commercial juice, so can’t judge that. But am a heavy coffee drinker so got my hands on several coffee flavors like FA Dark bean, Mocha TPA and several others. One of my best diy recipes I am still running from time to time is Dark bean 3% + Creme brulee at high 7%. Simple yet comforting in mtl vape.
As you said I am fooling myself by trying to clone commercial recepies - you’re third in the row claiming so. And I am more and more believing that. My point us - why is that so? What’s behind the commercial juices that prevent us to crack them?
I envy you the joy and peace of mind by creating your own diy and being happy with that. I simply want more, I want to achieve a diy vape I’d be able to run constantly the waxmy I do with several commercial juices which make my vaping experience so damn good. I enjoy great flavors hidden in the commercial juices but get frustrated by the fact I can’t create one diy I’d enjoy that much.
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@marsh8
You’re funny, thanks. That analogy: if you were that mechanic and created your own vehicle it would be great. But how can you evaluate your achievement if you never tried to drive a brand new Porsche? You can’t. Period.
It’s like smoking those stinky cigarettes from Asian producers. You will be okay until you tried a famous brand. It is like the people in N. Korea. They will be dying of hunger their leader says. But they still may live happily their poor lives for simply being uninformed how the rest if the developed world lives. Once they got to see that on the internet they will always seek for better living maybe even risking their lives to leave their home.
You don’t need to risk that much, go for a bottle of any commercial juice and then start judging my words. Without it you can praize your Ford into haeven but I can’t believe you as I’ve been to your places. But you have not even smelled mine.
No hardfeelings, just saying facts. You never tried a commercial bakery but you claim your diy bakery is better? You’re really something pal.
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@jinx_d
Thanks, I appreciate your honest opinion. Saying 99% of DIY stinks, would you dare to estimate how many of the commercial juices you’ve tried stink? 10, 20%, maybe even 50%? Surely not 90% let alone 99%. So, you pretty much confirm exactly my point of view. Thanks.
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That’s a bit unfair if you see the total number of recipes compared to the number of recipes in use. Yes, lots of diy juice as per the recipes is useless. But if every recipe that has been identified as useless would be removed the picture would be a different one.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who doesn’t like (most) commercial juices.I love my diy stuff and haven’t found any commercial ones I could have used for as long as I do with some of my own. Something’s always wrong (for me) It’s either too sweet, kills the coils too quickly or it just wears off.
I bet if you would ask people for their favorites and ADVs you’d have a different opinion. Maybe not totally convinced but off your 99.9% assumption.
Also you underestimate the problem with recipes which have been designed for DTL. I know it’s not easy to find out but some recipes have that in the notes.
I have changed my approach from buying what i thought may be a good idea to asking for existing recipes from known active users and then try to tweak it so it works better for me.
For example, I have tried quite a few vanillas and found some really nice ones and I know how they compare to others I have tried. If somebody recommends a recipe which contains one I know I can then go straight to my favorites because I know my preferences now. And how changing x to y influences the end result. Well, that’s the theory enway, it doesn’t always work out.
Also, some of the properties of commercial juices may be hidden in some flavors where you wouldn’t expect them. Just take the cactus example which was very popular to get certain properties like mouth feel.
I was disappointed a lot the first years but came to the conclusion that diy is not perfect for every occassion- But the money aspect and the fact that I’m having a hard time trusting many commercial juice makers made it an easy decision. But the money I’ve wasted on useless flavorings is certainly less than vaping commercial juices.
Stay with us, you’ll get there eventually. Research additives and look for threads in the forum where people ask for certain properties they haven’t been able to mimic.
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I know some folks who just never took to diy and obviously they buy their juice off the shelf. My experience was different than theirs. I learned early on that I would never perfectly “clone” a shelf juice, so I went the route of simply trying to make juices I enjoyed. As it stands now, I will occasionally try a shelf juice but they just end up sitting in a drawer. None for the last couple of years have hit the mark of what I make via diy. When things started really working well for me was when I stopped looking for recipes and developed my own from scratch.
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your welcome
i have only tried maybe 15(didn’t count). about 1/2 of those sucked, a few of those i fixed in with a DIY and they made the DIY good. the good 1/2 of those 15’ish, some were just ok. a few really good, to the point i started DIY to copy them = a waist of time.
see, the thing about DIY = there are soooooo many combinations and variables. while there are a few clones that are basicly spot on, most of the them are not. and then throw in the many variables that don’t include DIY, coils, tanks, etc, the variables are multiplied.
the 99% of recipes on ELR. those are usually basic users saying to themselves “hmmm, that last one sucked, so lets try this” , then they just dump something in and hope it works, and it doesn’t, it sucks. and they don’t bother making it private. nearly all of mine are private for that same reason.
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When you’re starting DIYing you shouldn’t have high expectations; just like when you start cooking for the first time you shouldn’t think you’ll prepare the most delicious meal by buying a recipe book from a masterchef. It just doesn’t go that way (otherwise we’d all be fantastic cooks, right?) and if you don’t quit too soon, eventually you will come out with your own recipe, using other ingredients than the highest rated chefs are and even make more delicious meals – to your taste. That’s what matters at the end.
Same goes with DIY vaping. More experience, the more you mix and learn, the better meals or vapes you can make. A learning curve can be pretty steep, just like with cooking, but if you read a lot and learn other ideas, what&why and what&why-nots from masterchefs, you may jump your classes faster.
If you value your time more than the path/goal, then you should expect your progress will not be fast and yes, in that case it’s probably better to stay with prepared microwave food (= commercial liquids) and you’ll probably be satisfied. Lots of people do that and they wouldn’t change that, so you’re not alone in this.
Sprksfly gave a good advice here and this may help you most (if not determined to quit yet).
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It was a coffee recipe called Stacked by Fivefold Vapors.
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Do you mean the one that was commercial? It was posted here on the forum but I can PM you the recipe. @Rocky02852 is a prolific coffee creator who you can follow and view his recipes, as well. Here is a thread where many mixers post their recipes:
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@Bad_Influence bad
Thanks for your fair and supportive words. Maybe I am raving a bit against diy cause I expected to make success in cloning just this one single commercial juice that I can’t stand without having at least 3 brand new bottles in the drawer.
It did push me to the edge. Your kind words though bring me to a confession I had diy successes, I have learned tricks on the way, I learned what I can’t stand (acetyl pyrazine for ex), I made it sonehow through my pg sensitivity, I switched from mtl to dl and back to restrictive dl to be now back partly into mtl.
But those constant changes take much energy and if I can’t clone a single stupid liquid I feel defeated.
But I must say along this journey it was 2 weeks ago I discovered completely new flavors, those by VTA, ordered some to study them and give them my best use. The other ones are by Malaysian Reka, very hard to find. I was sure their 2 flavors were needed to clone my favourite commercial recipe. And yeah, they do smell pretty close like being ingredients. But after mixing 15 various combination which all have that distinctive nice tobacco vanillish smell and letting them to steep for 2-3 weeks I was killed: almost the same smell of the juice but once you go use it in testing Hadaly rda it is again nothing like the original commercial. That is sooooo frustrating.
But, to be honest here, there just might be 1 or 2 juices that I need to develop a bit further. And, even though they won’t be a desired clone they are pretty good, maybe even better in some ways than the original.
So, guys who claim diy is better, I can understand you. However, so much effort to maybe come into relative vicinity of what is sold on every corner? I should’ve done better.
But, going public and asking people how they do it, what’s their experience in diy, I am learning I am not alone. Many people had poor or some success but continue the diy. I became a bit tired of it and asking myself why doing it in the 1st place? For a hobby? Well I have hobbies I prefer but don’t have enough time for because a juice needs to be mixed, items ordered, reviews watched, drawers cleaned, ELR comments filled in…
To save a few 100€/year? No.
To just enjoy it? Well, ok, I could claim that if travelling to the goal is more important than the goal itself. But I simply can’t afford the time for seeking for the Holy Grail if I can buy loads of it online.
And, I still do think the majority of the recognized juices out there are 50% better than the average of some 300 diy juices I’ve made until now. 90% of them steeped, tested and - poured down the sink. 90%!! I ve never poured away a commercial juice. Well, lying, I did pour away one I couldn’t stand for too strong ac.pyr. But, that’s ine out of 30 various juices vaped. I am so fond of my Horny mango I am hiding it from myself so that it would last longer… Pacha mama as well. But, when it comes to Nasty Silver I need 3 bottlesxat least because of being afraid to stay without it. In 3 years there’s not been a single day I would not vape it. Not an ADV but obviously ALV = all life vape😉. I am saying a full truth here.
So, if in 3 years I was not able to clone it nore were some friends of mine able to do so - why bother at all?
Go buy 5 bottles more and screw diy.
I am a person who wants to get things done. I can’t stand a failure. But, after reading so many of you saying - forget about cloning - I will need to accept that. Once I loose that imperative I don’t think anything will ever again keep me to be so persistant.
So I remain sceptic on successes of my diy liquids.
Cheers and thanks for your kind support.
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where are you ? ooops, just noticed your name.
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This is why I have changed my approach from designing recipes from scratch to stealing others and tweaking them. It was hard to accept but I’ve found out I have no clue. I’ve started with some great ideas but nothing worked. After reading a lot here on ELR I then used recipes others were talking about and had a few variations.
This has nothing to do with skill or special taste abilities or any of that. Just trial and error which gets a bit easier with experience.
This here is the recipe I ended up with after this process. I found one which came close to what I liked and just changed the vanilla to what was my favorite at the time. Needs a long steep but I used this recipe for at least a year or so. I just stopped mixing it because I barely use mtl these days and still ahve 200ml or so in the fridge.
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@MTL_sLOVEnia you’ve received a LOT of responses thus far, and I’ve not made it through them all yet. I’m not even sure what palate or profile(s) you like to even be able to guide you. There are many OLDER recipes here, that used older flavors, and due to the older equipment were, and are now massively OVER-flavored by today’s standards, and equipment.
I don’t know what recipes you tried thus far, but I have found quite a few GREAT recipes here on ELR and other sites, and in comparison to completely over sweetened commercial juice, are far superior.
I know it was mentioned above, but if you love, love, love commercial juice, then you must love sweetener, as many/most over sweeten. Doing that can conceal bad recipes, make things appear to POP, but most DIY’ers avoid this tactic.
I’ve never had that juice, but you should start with Flavorah’s Vanilla Tobacco, as it is almost a One-Shot right out of the bottle, as a single flavor.
Hehe, it IS frustrating, as we’ve all been there. Here’s the inconvenient truth however, if all you ever do, is copy OTHER people’s recipes, then that’s all you’ll have. I do a HUGE number of flavor reviews, and TEST the flavors, which allows you to know them, and better use them. I would strongly suggest testing some flavors that you prefer, then experiment with them in recipes, TAKE NOTES, find what works, and what doesn’t, and TAKE NOTES.
If it was easy, everyone would be an expert on DAY ONE, but no one ever is.
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Here you go @MTL_sLOVEnia, mix this gem up, it IS the actual recipe, along with the stupid 2.0% of Super Sweet, which is insane, and almost beyond double or tripple normal rates. See if you like this “commercial” juice.
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Vanilla Tobacco (Flavorah) 0.8% (4-11-21) – LAST ONE on deck for this new series from Flavorah. Having now tested their RY4, and Mild Tobacco, I was curious to see if this one shared similarities. It did. It had many of the rich, deep, dark almost smoky tobacco as the two aforementioned, but this time, it was layered into a deliciously light vanilla carrier. Simplistically speaking, the Mild Tobacco had a great Caramel carrier, and this one has a great Vanilla Carrier, with the RY4 being the heavy standout, as far as increased smoky notes. This one tasted great @ 0.8%, and didn’t feel like it was hitting the ceiling. It was below mid sweet, and the vanilla layer was very nicely blended in. At times I almost got more of the sweet than the Vanilla, but it was there throughout the vape. While not appearing as complex as the caramel in the Mild this one paired perfectly with the bacco notes, and held it’s own, but didn’t steal the limelight. The darker/smoky bacco notes from the other baccos was present here as well, but like the Mild, were slightly reduced to allow room for the carrier layer. All in, this one could be a GREAT first one for people wanting to delve into the world of baccos, without a slamming, in your face bacco. Finished the entire two testers on this one, and remember, I’m NOT a bacco vaper, hehe, so that should tell you something. Finishing out this series, this one had no real take-offs, except maybe for some linearity of the vanilla in comparison to the more complex caramel in the Mild. Feels, and felt really good @ 9.5/10.
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No offense meant to anyone, but I’ve found more very good recipes on ATF than anywhere else. That being said, I’ve found some great ones here along with some great ideas.
I never met a commercial juice I liked even DLLT and lemon is my #1 profile.
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Those companies probably created a hundred different variations for each flavor during the creation process. They have time, money, resources, and can hire professional flavorists (possibly?) ect. That’s what they do. Back to my variations theory, they probably taste test over and over until it’s perfectly balanced or whatever they’re going for.
Even the best mixers in DIY do it as a hobby. They can come up with some great tasting stuff but there’s a lot of average recipes out there. In 4 years of DIY I never created anything I’d call special. It takes a lot of effort for people like me. I don’t have the willpower to make dozens of variations trying to get things dialed in. I think a lot of others are the same way and settle for “Good enough”. Truthfully, I’ve been taking a break from DIY for about a year. I do plan on getting back into it but I’ve been buying my e liquid.
Commercial e liquid is the same way though. There’s plenty of duds out there. When it’s good though, it’s very good IMO.
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well said …
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