I’ve only been mixing for a year, but I got the same problem. I can’t clone my favorite brands. That’s the reason I joined ELR was to see if I can find some good alternatives. My favorite brand of salt Nic is trpcl. They have three flavors that I really love. They are all 80/20 with 50 mg salt Nic. 1st problem i ran into was being sold lousy salt nic in 10% (100mg). This stuff acted like Freebase Nic. I couldn’t mix it above 10 mg without it tasting absolutely horrible. I got some better quality salt Nic and I can up the nicotine. Then I had to get better vegetable glycerin. I got the Palm derived glycerin. That made a lot of difference. Now I’ve got the best salt Nic I can buy, best vegetable glycerin I can buy, and the best propylene glycol I can buy. But I can’t find flavors that are worth a damn to save my life. There are some flavors that these commercial guys are getting that we can’t get. Or at least I haven’t ran across any that can duplicate my favorite commercial flavors. Right now my two favorite vaping devices are my RPM 40 with 4 ohm coils and my RPM 80 with .4. I still prefer doing my own cuz I can control the harshness, and the amount of Vape I make with each hit. But I can’t find any flavors that duplicate the commercial flavors in an appreciable manner. I found some that aren’t bad, but none that really make me happy. Anybody have any suggestions on any flavors I can buy that are actually going to show up when I Vape?
I didn’t know it was so expensive for supplies, where you are! I’m sorry for that. Don’t give up, though.
Keep trying and work on your own original blands. Eventually you will find something that you’ll like maybe better than your commercial juices.
It takes a lot of trial and error. To save supplies, and in the long run money, use smaller bottles or make smaller amounts until you get a good blend you enjoy. Don’t forget steeping times.
I do hope you find something you enjoy. What is your preference for profiles? Fruits and candies? Custards or tobaccos? Coffees or desserts? Maybe someone can offer you a tried and true recipe.
Have you uploaded the flavors you have to your stash on the recipe side so we can see what you have to maybe guide you on a recipe based on what you have?
@Mixer
Right, prices in US. Well, in Europe double that at least. FLV flavors with shipping and customs trippled the price you’re stating. PG/VG I buy is 20$/liter. 200$ for premium commercial buys 8 bottles, double that please. And so on, not to mention coils and other hardware. Say 2,500 - 3,000 $ would do. I never spent that much on cigarettes.
So much about it’s cheaper. Not for me at least.
ok, things cost more there. but, is the average wage that much higher ?
as in = $25hr minimum wage ?
In eastern Europe wages are 10€ (12$) gross/hour, gas is 1,2€/lit i.e. 6.50 $/USG while a pack of Marlboro 4-5$. The developped western Europe wages in average go up to a max of 25$/hour gross.
Vaping in Europe makes some savings if you DIY on modest equipment and just basic or average ingredients. But hey, I was like smoking the best so I want the best out of vaping. Well, maybe not the most expensive but at least good for my taste.
A bottle 10ml of 20mg nic shot is 2.5 - 5 $. Go make your own math.
- trust me, prices of vaping is doubled in Europe
- prices of cigerettes in eastern Europe are 50% lower.
That’s where our math differs…
No time to respond in a proper manner. Thanks for your advices. Yeah, I agree I will need some more FLV flavors to my stock. I kept avoiding them for their doubled prices vs the majority of other flavors but once I got the FLV Lemonade, Boyenberry and Vanilla pudding I understood the difference. That Mild bacco you mention and the Vanilla bacco seem pretty much to my taste so need to place another order, more money invested into DIY, where does it stop??
But I agree, FLV never let me down.
Thanks.
@ everyone reading this and posting
Big thanks to everyone! I wasn’t expecting that many answers, support and suggestions.
Thas’t the unique thing that makes difference to me when comparing diy to commercial juices.
I think my point was met, there were many who disagreed but also some who actually admitted they feel pretty much the same.
Vaping’s not that much cheaper if you want the quality of flavors. I just ordered some FLV flavourings, they cost around 5 $/10 ml, once imported and customs cleared it will make 5.50$/smallest bottle.
So, the question of either diy or simply go buy your preferred juice does make sense.
Still I agree DIY is a process of learning and experiencing. I only wish I had more time for it.
The sole thing that surprises me big deal is that NOBODY but NOBODY replying to this thread ever has tried the Nasty tobacco juices amongst which the Silver blend is just a perfect tobacco. Go find a bottle for yourself, won’t regret it. Apart from the fact you will want more or want to clone it. 
Thanks again and - have a good one.
@MTL_sLOVEnia I was the same way BEFORE I tried them (and Medicine Flower). I held off, thinking it was too much money. Once I finally bought some, started using them, and realized how STRONG they were, the “apparent” price difference, became a NON-issue. Strong flavors, less usage, etc.
Hehe, I have over 1,000 flavors, I’m not sure.
I’d be curious to hear what you think, when you get them.
@Yahisel
Well nice to see smbdy with a similar problem. I did find many even average priced flavors very good, even fantastic. Ry4 and VBIC by TPA for example or Capella’s VC or FW salted caramel or FA’s majority of flavors.
If you’re asking for help you should first define your favourites: which commercial liquids are you using?
What flavor profiles?
My question for the sake of this discussion would be how many of the commercial liquids were good or very good? 50%? 80%? 100%?
I found 80% of what I bought very good, 15% average and only 5% maybe not so much for my taste.
Well, the 1st thing I was using as a beginner is the ELR flavor list. For ex., you search for vanilla custard and see those vc that were mostly used in the past and the rating. So many people using them couldn’t be totally wrong, right?
Secondly, try the FLV flavors. Go search at Chef’s flavors if you’re closer to UK or Bullcity or Nicriver if closer to the States. Especially tobaccos, custards, vanillas and, above all Boysenberry and the FLV Lemonade. Probably in the top 5 of my flavourings. That is if you like lemon.
However, I suppose you’re younger. Why using 50mg salts? Do you need that? It’s not vaping, it seems like getting high.
Did you know 1 ml of nic salts at 50mg is more nicotine than in a pack of the red stinkies? Don’t overdue your nic cause there’s no need.
Well, I didn’t understand, I hope you’re dilluting that nic. Cause no need to use it over 20mg even in a mtl device or a pod.
What salted nic is your favourite? Have you tried the ZAP! ?
What brand VG/PG are you using?
That much from me…
@SessionDrummer
Hahahaha,
just by this you justifed my constallations:
- Vaping can easily get as expensive as smoking, especially out of UK/USA/Australia/CA - esoecially buying high end like FLV/MF (MF is however too expensive for what it is)
- hooked on searching for the holy grail takes so much time it might be better to just stick with 5-10 favourite commercial juices
How can I justify that?
By doing some simple math out of your case: 1.000 flavors?? Ouaah, impressive, I thought 500 would be max, but 1,000, that’s for professional mixers on YT who get part of their flavors for free.
Now, the math: if the average expiry date of a flavor is… 5years (?) and the average age of your stash is 2 years (?) you’ll be pouring down the toilett almost 90% of your stash within 3 years. Probably even more if you also use some commercial juices along. Cause if you use 15ml of e-juice per day at 6mg it means 1ml of flavorings per day (mixing flavors at 10% in average). Such, 365 ml if flavors us what you need in a year. 1,200 mls in 3 years from now. But, you have in your stash 1,000 x 10mls (the min flavouring bottles) = 10,000 mls!!
Such, in 3 years you’ll throw in your toilett some 900 expired flavors. Having FLV/MF flavors in your stash the average price if a 10ml flavor cannit be below 3$. So, almost 3,000 $ will be thrown away?
This math is wrong only if you are mixing for others or selling juices?
If not, that only means you’re well hooked on constant searching for the holy grail of diy. It takes time. Imagine you were just buying the commercial juices, that might’ve saved 1 hour of your time/day. 15 days in a year? A full holiday!!
So, does diy realy pay?
I am not provoking you, I might be wrong somwhere.
But, the bottom line, being an expert obviously, could you share with me an extra tobacco or fruity recipe with me? Please, just no MF flavors involved. 
Will look up for your recipes on ELR.
Big thanks.
@SessionDrummer
Yeah, exactly 617 flavors in your ELR stash… I suppose some 400 were not put in. Amazing how much work you’ve put into it. Testing flavors alone and analyzing. I was too modest to say you’re investing 15 days/year into DIY. It is more like a month. Apart from sleeping/working this means approximately 30% of your free time invested into DIY?
Now, using stinkies (smoking) would shorten statistically your life for aporoximately the same amount of time. Just saying. Does diy pay?
If we exclude the joy and adrenalyn of such a hobby - it does not. Especially with such proffessional aproach like yours. The only way it makes sense is - if you’re doing it for business. R U?
Hehe, I ran outta gas !!! Actually I use a separate program that tracks my inventory, where I focused on the EXACT inventory load.
That sounds about right, unless I’m reviewing flavors or equipment, because then it feels like 110% of my free time LOL.
Well I’m not sure if it’s pro, but thank you.
I do sell juice, as well as vape it, and continue to help as many people as I can, switch from very dangerous smoking, to a much, much safer vaping. 
Increase the amount of flavourings you’re using: you wouldn’t add three single grains of sugar to your coffee and expect it to magically taste like two teaspoons of sugar - it just isn’t possible to have an 8% DIY juice taste like any commercial juice that contains three times that much flavour in it.
I keep on saying this and everyone just ignores me like I’m talking bat-shit crazy rubbish: only @fidalgo_vapes has concurred that higher flavours produce higher flavour while everyone else is fucking delusional about where they expect all that taste to come from!
Yeah, 8% might be tasty enough on a very particular mod with a 200W sub-ohm tank that only ten people own, but any recipe that requires people go out and purchase new hardware simply to be able to taste that mix?
Really now.
What is wrong with you people?
If people need to change their hardware simply to be able to taste a recipe, that recipe sucks: everyone should be able to mix a recipe, fill their tank and taste it just fine on whatever they’re using.
That is all from Captain Obvious for now.
Edit: And of course, you can get the flavour total down to 8-10% if you’re using ONLY Flavorah - it being so much more potent than the majority of brands we use, but the majority of mixes we mix are made with several brands and these brands are more diluted, requiring more concentrate.
God that lasagne was good.
Although it would take far too much time to deep dive into your math, I can comment none the less.
Vaping is far less dangerous, and expensive than smoking.
You have allowed yourself to get caught in the “price trap” when stating “high end” flavors ADD to cost. Specifically Flavorah, and Medicine Flower (two of the MOST expensive, and strong flavors), how much you actually USE in each recipe is FAR less than cheaper “regular” flavors, so it is not an A/B price comparison, and often times either come out at the same price (comparatively), or less.
Searching for any Holy Grail can be expensive not matter what the object of your desire is.
Justify, hmmmmm, that’s a hard one. I’ve been doing this for a LONG time, and have acquired this hoard OVER that period of time, and (as you know) test, and review equipment, and flavors, and even finished juices. I was somewhat lucky that I did not pay for all of them. BUT, in comparison, when I was smoking 2 packs a day, hehe, the costs, just really don’t add up as pro/con as you might think.
LOL, too much math, and misconceptions. I seldom, if ever throw any flavors away due to “expiration”, and have some VERY old flavors, and they are indeed, fine. I keep all my artificial flavors cool and dark, and my all natural flavors in a fridge.
I don’t think anyone ever truly becomes an expert at DIY, but many of us can be more EXPERIENCED than others. Some due to skill, but MOST due to an investment in time. Some HAVE the time, some don’t. The more time you invest, the more experienced you will become, and the less waste you will have.
As far as recipes, I seldom publish them, as I am too damn picky, and have a hard time calling something “done”. As far as tobacco recipes, hehe, I am a RELUCTANT bacco vaper, and never liked them. Only just recently did I actually test some from Flavorah. My preferences are normally custards, bakeries, etc., but can think of a great, super simple “fruit” recipe, that another mixer made, that was stupidly simple, and delicious.
Hehe, TWO flavors, and it just plain worked. You can find recipes with 15 ingredients that aren’t as good, as simply pairing TWO.
Right.
I lf you were smoking 2 packs a day in the US than it is a completely different math.
As you’re selling juices that also tells why 1,000 flavors on stash.
Thanks for that recipe, I do have both flavors and actually like them. Will be mixed today. Still, amongst berries nothing like the FLV Boysenberry for me.
Well, I could say I envy you for there’s not so many lucky people who do their hobby as a (part-time?) job.
Keep having a good obe and thanks for helping the community.
If you like tobacco flavour, search for kinnikinnick at the recipes side. @Josephine_van_Rijn also have good tobacco recipes.
@delltrapp
Thanks, I know about Kinnikinnick but his tobaccos are more on the heavy side, mixing dark tobaccos, cubans etc. I prefer mild smooth vanillish even sweeter tobacco flavors. The best flavors for my taste still are Soho and ry4-s, lately I can add the Dark tobacco by Wrecka. Besides, I have some 30 tobacco flavourings, 20 of them like Bkack Perique, Glory, Virginia, Red burley, Western etc. are just sitting in the drawer. They are nice tobaccos but too prominent and reminding of the stinkies.
While that Josephine doesn’t exist on ELR.