I don’t have anything worth selling so take this with a grain of salt, But I dont see an issue with you mixing recipes for some friends and neighbours and charging a small amount of money for them im sure alot of people do that as it provides a more affordable option for people to keep vaping instead of smoking. I personally mix for my brother and a friend (though I dont charge my brother or friend I should probably start lol)
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I certainly don’t make as much money as I am spending on this ‘hobby’ 
but the thing is, in my little circle of vapers, I’m ‘the man’, if it’s to do with vaping, go to Pugs …and it’s only when I came onto ELR that it hit me that actually …I knew nothing! 
people like us that mix and build and what have you are few and far between, I mean yeah we all come together here and share stories and speak to the real experts, but I don’t know anyone that does what i do, and I have a lot of friends, so of course they’re going to come to me, so now it’s my job to up my game and learn how to get better at everything, if you know what I mean…
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I often come to the realisation that I know nothing. Seems to occur quite frequently. The more I learn about mixing the less I know about it lmao
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Not sure where you get this notion. When the creator puts something on the internet where anyone can access it without so much as a membership, that seems pretty public to me. Regardless, the term public domain is in reference to copyrighted material anyway, so it’s a non issue. More than that I think anyone who would post a recipe on a site with the expectation no one should use it for either private or commercial use is living in a land of myth and fantasy.
As for ethics, I think the main thing is that if you didn’t create the recipe the unethical thing would be to go round saying you did. Not giving credit to the source is not the same as claiming it’s your original creation.
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1000 times this!
That’s one of my issues.
(EDIT: UGH. Missed the key word there. “not”
Anyways, I respectfully disagree. I believe it is the same. Those that mix their own, without intentionally copying another’s recipe, no harm no foul, as there’s always the chance. But those that do take another’s recipe, and try to put it out there as ‘a seperate product’ are just low IMO. If I took the label off a bottle of windex, and tried to sell it for double the price, under my own label, that’s deceptive to say the least. I feel it’s the same thing. I’ll leave it at that.)
One of the other biggies would probably be, if someone asks anything to the effect of “could I make this?” to the person that’s peddling another person’s mix, then in my opinion, that person should be ethically bound (key words here) to let the person asking know then and there, exactly what the recipe is (including specific flavor name, brands, and percentages used), and where they can find more info (here for example) on how to begin their journey in an intelligent and safe manner.
The whole point of this place (in my opinion) is the community, and anyone “profiting” from it, even if it’s just to support your stash should at least try to bring those others “still outside” into the fold. Even if they don’t mix, there’s still tons of intelligent folks out there that can contribute in other ways
- hardware enthusiasts (coil building, mods, etc)
- legal experts
- technical minds
- someone that needs to find a place to take solace in during the struggle to quit.
Trying to keep it reigned in here, but I think the above sums it up for the most part for me. I just wish that folks would respect the idea behind DIY. It should not be a ‘shooting fish in a barrel’ situation, but rather a lake that’s catch and release, unless you need to eat, while teaching others the joy of fishing.
Peace.
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I respect that opinion. And were it not the fact we’re talking specifically about DIY and ELR I would agree. Like if there was a commercial juice company or some consortium that used a web-based data base for their commercial recipes. Say for argument’s sake a recipe called Angel Breath. And this is a commercially available juice from ABC E-Liquids. Then I hacked the website, found their recipe, copied it and started selling it…well that clearly is theft IMO. But on ELR we’re not talking about people or companies’ recipes for commercial sales. Anyone keeping their commercial recipes on here or elsewhere that is publicly available should have no expectation those would be protected in any way whatsoever. It’s the price that is paid for making them public. On the other hand, a DIY person, by definition, is a hobbyist and should no more expect their creations or ideas to be protected than Subway should be for how they make sandwiches. If the DIY person does want some type protection of their intellectual work, they should open a business, brand their product, and most importantly not share their recipes with anyone, ever. There’s a great commercial shop here locally and the guy who mixes the in house liquids doesn’t share his recipes with anyone, even his employees. I’m sure if he could speak to this subject here he would agree that’s the only true way a person could or have expectations of keeping any trade secrets and not being stolen from.
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I agree with you on the aspect of ‘safety’ and protection of something you’ve personally created (speaking to the POV of a person who’s got commercial and vested interests to protect).
However, I’m more talking about the aspect of those who think it’s alright to create a business (or business model) on the back of someone else’s hard work.
Like Wayne said in one of his rant videos (and those -like yourself, who’ve been mixing for any ‘noteworthy’ length of time can easily agree) some of the more dedicated have hundreds to thousands of hours invested in achieving their idea of ‘perfection’, and have generously shared it with the community that’s inspired them, nurtured their ideas, etc.
To make no mention of them, and exploit their creativity and hard work for your own gain is “grey area” admittedly -though grudgingly. lol (Maybe they couldn’t market it due to financial limitations, time constraints, or other such reasons), and I get that argument! To some, that’s just “making use of a missed opportunity” in their eyes. So I try to leave that alone.
But what I’m talking about is when they are blatantly trying to profit off of another person’s name/notoriety. Which is how I saw it in the one recent case. Which is why I went “ballistic” about it. Not so much the prior paragraph, but this one. If they weren’t, there’d be no need for the same names on the recipe, or the screen shots. They’d simply do like a lot of the other ‘mom-n-pop shops’ do, and copy them, and put their own name on them.
Appreciate everyone bandying this about. As it took several days of just letting that whole Sydney situation ‘marinate’ before I could really get half a grip on it all. And even more time to try and put feelings into proper words here. I’m sure there were more than a couple that saw this thread and went “Oh shit…here we go again…” (I know I did, lol) I’m so glad I’ve found this place. Even when it feels like we’re about to ‘go off the rails’ everyone tries like hell to get back to an even keel (myself included).
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I get you. And I’ll limit my comments about the “Sydney situation” to just this. Well, let me be a bit more generic…
I don’t reckon myself any great mixer. But like most, purely by accident I’ve stumbled upon some of my own great creations, and by intention have created a couple as well. Being I’m no prolific figure and don’t garner a ton of attention as some others do, I suppose it’s easy to be somewhat nonplussed by the issue. However, if it were my recipes, recipe name, images etc being marketed without my consent or involvement, then I can say with certainty it would not go over well and the people making bank off my work would be glad to be on the other side of the planet…where I can’t get my hands on them. That’s just sleazy and cheap. Still, if I put it all out there on a public forum I’d have only myself to blame…true? But I wonder - where there is this clone and that clone being sold for profit, how long will it be before someone does get litigious with it? I mean it’s fun to try and clone a popular recipe and share it amongst ourselves, but it’s a far different animal to make money off it. And some of these companies such as Suicide Bunny an Cutwood have some pretty deep pockets nowadays.
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OMG… I know, right?
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I’ve had to deal with a few “vendors” completely stealing my recipes, recipes of other mixers, and recipes I’m sure they just found on here (and if you see it happen please lemme know). There’s really nothing you can do about it, unless you operate under a business, and are able to trademark certain things. For instance, the ENYAWREKLAW name and specific recipe names will be trademarked so no company can use my likeness to profit from. But it doesn’t stop them from taking my recipes, changing all the names, and using them under their name. I can say that this community is VERY good at finding these vendors and calling them out, which has helped immensely.
You CAN copyright recipes, and even recipe profiles, but it’s difficult to get that copyright. Basically the recipe needs to be a defining recipe, or extremely unique, a “trade secret” of some sort. Chef’s can’t copyright a burger they made, but Coke can copyright the “Coke Formula”. There’s somewhat of a difference there. Some eliquid companies actually have copyrights on their liquids. Anyways, for the small up-and-comer, I wouldn’t worry about adapting recipes. I mean how many “unicorn milks” are there out there? And nothing is wrong with adapting a recipe if it’s something that takes inspiration from, and not derives from. Making sure you’re creating your OWN thing while taking inspiration from other artists is an AGE OLD art dilemma. Artists stole eachother’s work and styles all the time. But it seems like your hearts in the right place so unless you blatantly rip someones recipe off, deriving off their name and likeness, and only tweaking a percentage here and there, you should be fine. The worst thing is when someone uses your company name without asking period. That shit makes my fucking blood boil. Hope that helps in some way @Ghettotrout I know it was kinda all over the place…sorry, a bit tired.
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I must say it’s nice to see you in the forums. 
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thanks bud, nice to see you in the forums!
Haha thanks. I’ll be around much more these days. I kind of never knew how big of a community there was in the ELR forums. It’s awesome.
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you should stop by the chat sometime
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Yes that’s for sure!
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Great news, you were actually what got me into mixing, would love to see you around here more 
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I wonder how many of ELR recipes are sitting in a bottle on a shelf in a shop right now with a “Joe Bloggs Vape” label and price tag of £15 
Like I’ve said before if you like any of my public recipes, take them, use them, sell them as your own, I create, not for fame nor profit but for the love of vaping.
Don’t ever use my name though, you can never be this Grubby… 
Who is @Wayne_Walker ?
Someone please enlighten me
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Wayne is the guy behind DIY or DIE on youtube.
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Awesome utube channel. His vid about costing of juice that got me to try DIYing ever grateful for that!
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Must agree on that. His channel was one of the first i subbed on when it comes to vaping channels.
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