Flavor Apex

Ah, okay, good I found the source…

Has anyone played with this theory? I know that it is common practice to turn up a flavor until it mutes/ you get what you want out of it, but I am curious as to what happens past the point of muting. Does the flavor start to come back, even stronger?

I would assume this does not work with every flavor, but there are some that you could squeeze some extra life out of. Of course with others it would just mute completely or taste straight up nasty (bakery/ non-fruit flavors) but I am mostly referencing fruit flavors with this theory.

Best example that causes this to be plausible in my mind is one of my first recipes ever; Strawberry Bon Bon.

Long ago, I created this and people loved it, but I turned down the flavors assuming that the high %'s were making the mix harsh (Now of course, I figure it was the freebase nic I was using as I have since switched to salts).

My current Strawberry Bon Bon looks nothing like the original, but I still have people request the original recipe.

So… Thoughts on this ‘flavor apex’ and pushing past it?


SB harvest JF would be at home in there!

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I haven’t done intentional testing. But it does explain why some people like me can vape higher percentages of bilberry fa 1% to 1.5% and blackberry fa.

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Why would you?

To me, it just sounds silly. If you’ve already found that something is reliably and realistically usable at say 3% why on earth do you feel the need to even entertain the idea of using 5-6 times that amount?

You’re only increasing costs, saturation point, and spinning your wheels for no good reason IMO. There’s being thorough (explorationally speaking), and then there’s “help, I’m locked in a centrifugal force loop circle, and can’t stop the machine”.

I personally think you’re over thinking it bro.

Nothing about your original strawberry bon bon looks out of whack or extreme to me. 8% is far from a crazy amount for certain people, and certain hardware (where Capella is concerned).


That recipe IS an example of pushing past the standard percentage and it working. I’m not talking any higher than that, 8% IS the double apex. I generally use it around 4% (though lately, CAP is being used at 6+ % for me more and more).

I’m not talking about 15% or anything crazy, more 8-10% from the 3-4% that flavors are generally used at, per flavor.

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I also have to wonder why you would bother. I suppose it does make sense that a flavor could mute at a certain % and come back at a higher %, but if there’s a lower amount that works I’d always go with the lower amount.


Well a couple things could stand clarification then. At least in my mind. I took your entire missive as relating to a single flavor. And proceeded from there with the same premise.

6-8% of Cap strawberry IS the normal SF percentage. Not some loosely coined “double apex”.

Therefor, it’s a common practice for many mixers to use the SF percentage of the lead flavor on the main note.

If 8% was a normal SF or main note, then it stands to reason that it would be dialed back to 4% or whatever as a secondary note. Again for most.

Whether you have dialed back your overall flavoring usages is a secondary factor. But all I was trying to point out, that you’re not at some double apex or whatever with Cap strawberry @ 8%.

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Hmmm. Why would someone bother or wonder? :slightly_smiling_face:

Well, there is a person from another forum that has problems tasting strawberry shisha inw. For most people, if I recall correctly the norm in a mix is 1-3%. For her she uses it something like 6-8%…and for her it works great…and I have a lot of respect for her.

It also helps to explain, like for me, that I like billbery at higher than normal percentages. Normal as compared to the rest of the community when I say I use it at 1-2%. Or more than 1 drop blackberry fa in a mix.

Also, haven’t you ever wondered what custard fa would taste like at 7%. Lol with butter fa.

Over all I wouldn’t say testing this out with cap flavors. You would have to do 15-20%. However, with fa flavors…which is where I came across the double apex talk two years ago, the concept is interesting. (Punctuation and grammar aside. )


This makes sense, obviously if a person can’t taste a flavor at lower % and likes it higher then its a good reason to use more than normal.

But is this actually a “double apex” or just that you have a higher than normal % preference? My thought its that a double apex would be pushing a flavor to the point of muting (which means you can taste it at a lower %) and then continuing to push it higher until it comes back. That’s specifically what I’m wondering about why someone would bother.


So I’ll rephrase my question. If a flavor is good to you at say, 5%, and it mutes out at say 7%, why would you try to make the flavor come back at higher than 7% when you could use it at 5%? I’m all ears if there’s actually a legit reason for doing that.


Thank you! This was meant to be said, but I’m still in a fog and forgot to.

Agreed. And to me, if 15-20% was indeed viable for Cap (as a representation of a “double apex”) my question remains of “what would the point of doing so be?” if it’s already been established by the individual doing the testing, that it’s viable at 6-8%.

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My basic train of thought goes something like this:
3-4%, it tastes good but isn’t as strong as I would like. 5-7%, it mutes. 8-10% the flavor comes back and stronger than it was at 3-4%.

These numbers will obviously vary, but for those who desire the store bought, premium, flavor-saturated juice that is available, this would be a preferable use of their flavors.


Alright! Now we’re getting somewhere! =)
(Thanks for sticking with it! And us! I’m almost certain I could sense your frustration :wink: )

It’s my opinion, what you’re describing, and experiencing are the normal “flavour segments”.
Commonly referred to as the “mixing percentage” (3-4%) and “single flavor” (6-8%) percentage. At least with respect to Cap sweet strawberry.

3-4% is where it’s made itself noticeable enough in the mix to be useful (or ‘good’, as you’ve put it), but still plays well with others (generally speaking) without raising overall percentages.

6-8% is where most would want it as a single flavor. Or where it’s strongest (as you also noted). However, being at it’s strongest (“the first time”), without ever having reached a point where it goes chemical tasting, etc, marks the ideal max for that flavor.

The impression that you were leaving (at least before) for me was, “ok, you reach the ideal max, you go through chemical land, then come out all shiny on the other side, landing back in flavor town”. Which just wasn’t jiving (again, at least for me).

The key here being, that Cap SS never mutes at 5-7%. Again, at least for me. So I hope this at least clarifies the understanding I have had, and more so, what I was trying to explain.

Sorry if I wasn’t able to make it clearer before, but I’m at the tail end of my meds working right now (and waiting for the next round to kick in). So maybe this will be a bit clearer, and easier for you to make sense of. :wink:

All the best Pentine.


Ditto, @Pentine :wink: ftr I hope I didn’t come off as snarky or argumentative. I was just trying to understand your thought process so thank you for responding. Ultimately whatever you think tastes good is what you should do!



No worries, no frustrations! It’s a learning process and even after 2 years, I am still figuring stuff out. Plus if someone stumbles on this thread and it helps them further their progress, all the better.

I have gone from using too much flavor to too little (spent way too long on too little) and now I am starting to ramp up the %'s a bit more lately but doing it with caution.