I had to move recently and will setting up the “lab” again i noticed many bottles had irregular mis-shapenness (made up word? Lol) and i quickly realized that the flavor were actually eating the plastic as “thin” spots in the bottles could be felt where the bottles had deformed. The worst of the bunch a bubble gum flavoring stored in a supposedly safe HDPE bottle whose lid was slowly melting and actually dripping down into the bottle!
I have noticed the LDPE bottles will not keep flavors or eliquids well and both finished juice and flavors will darken and expire in said LDPE bottles. Soneone mentioned the Cap 15ml bottles containing one of there first ever expired flavoring. I know @BoDarc has mentioned the necessity of glass but i believe his warning has mostly been ignored (by myself as well lol)
Long story short i think we should push for resellers/rebottlers to sell in glass and glass only!
I for one would gladly pay slightly more instead of having the pain of transferring everything over to glass myself.
Here are pics of the damage.
This is a serious issue and potential health hazard
what about the P.E.T bottles or all plastic ??? using glass is of course the best way to go , but then you have the droppers to deal with and those arent that great either ive read that those shouldnt be used for long term either , or if you use a cap then you have draw the liquid out with either a syringe or glass dropper , at that point imo a person might as well go back to measuring instead of weighing , for me personally i dont mind plastic and havent had any issues id like to hear @ecigexpress@BullCityFlavors@Nicotine_River@Walt_RealFlavors opinions and what they assume cost increase would be , dont forget not only would there be a cost increase for flavors it would also increase cost for shipping especially for the 4oz and bigger bottles , then the free shipping minimums would have to be raised ,
just my opinion
Of the three used most LDPE, HDPE and PET im leaning towards the hard style PET like walt uses are best. Although just because you cannot see a reaction occuring does not mean a reaction is not happening. Im keeping all PET as no reaction seems to be occuring, the rest are going into glass. The HDPE are melting! All my flavorah and Nicvape shipped in HDPE show signs of melting on the inside of the bottle at the thinest point at the top of the bottles where the threads are. The LDPE are obviously deformed from a similiar chemical reaction occuring
I keep all my bulk flavorings in glass and refrigerate at 50 degrees, i have 15 ml and 30 ml pet bottles of each flavoring for mixing, i am transitioning to 15 ml bottles to reduce the exposure time of the flavorings. Does anyone have experience with euro droppers ? They look like they might work in glass bottles ??
Ive noticed that plastic bottles are deformed during manufacturing sometimes, if all the bottles are deformed in the same way that might be the cause ? Just a thought good luck with your melting issues i will definetly watch out for that.
I’m turning into 100% PET, as the darkening in LDPE is obvious. I did find ONE thing about PET that wasn’t really of “concern” but you should be aware of. It resolved entirely about multiple re-uses and when or if the bottles get “crinkely”
The small 15 and 30ml pet bottles are horrid for e liquid but fantastic for thin flavor. Cheap enough to replace. I’m using the 120ml and 60ml PET bottles with twist cap from NR. Perfecto!
Glass is ultimately the best solution when storing contents of any kind however, using glass does have some downfalls. We’ve noticed that when mixing juice by weight that having the ability to squeeze the flavor from the bottle itself is easier and less time consuming. Also, glass is slightly more expensive than plastic and has a higher chance of breaking/cracking during a shipment which could be dangerous. Finally, glass does become heavy when multiple bottles are ordered which would result in higher shipping costs.
What we recommend would be to pour or transfer the product into glass once you receive the contents. We do our best to only use PET Plastic bottles (unless our supplier runs out of stock) every chance we get since that seems from our knowledge to be the most reliable plastic. All in all, glass is best however it most likely is not an option that will be available from our store just because of the reasons listed above.
Thank you! Let me know here if you need anything or have questions!
This is what i recently have done. I transferred all larger quantities into glass and smaller amounts in “hard” style pet 60ml and 130ml with twist caps for mixing by weight. All LDPE and HDPE had to go!
The type of plastic bottle that typically holds water, soda and juice is made frompolyethylene terephthalate, a petroleum-based material also known as PET that is labeled No. 1. “The trouble with reusing those plastic bottles is that each time they are washed and refilled they become a little more scratched and crinkly, which can lead them to degrade. That can cause a trace metal called antimony to leach out,” said Frederick S. vom Saal, a professor of biology at the University of Missouri who has studied plastics for years.
Which brings us to our next complicated word, ANTIMONY.
What is antimony? Well, in short, antimony is a heavy metal used as a catalyst in the production of PET. It is not uncommon, actually it is very common to find detectable traces of antimony on the surface of film after production. Antimony is also toxic. Studies show that short-term exposure to antimony by inhalation results in effects on the skin and eyes. Respiratory effects, such as inflammation of the lungs, chronic bronchitis, and chronic emphysema are the primary effects noted from chronic exposure to antimony via inhalation. While antimony concentrates are regulated by two acts, the CFR Title 40 Part 141 Drink Water as well as CFR Title 21 Part 165 Food and Drugs at maximum contaminant levels of 0.006mg/L or 6 ppb— antimony has been shown to migrate from the surface of PET bottles into the fluid at elevated temperatures. Studies show leaching from 99.86F to over 176F.
Why are PET type bottles used and what does this mean for your PET type plastic E juice bottles?
Simply put, PET type plastic bottles are popular because they look and feel good aesthetically. Virtually translucent, PET bottles have a glassy look, are rigid, semi-squeezable and are a bit stronger compared to other grades of plastic. But with E juice bottles being small and often carried in a person’s pocket, left in a hot car, in the garage or held up at the local post office for days on end where temperatures often exceed 99.86 degrees Fahrenheit, the chance of antimony to leach into your vape juice is greatly increased.
You need not worry. We, the good folks at Mt Baker Vapor do not bottle our E Juice with PET type bottles, but rather employ low-density polyethylene type 4 bottles, commonly abbreviated as LDPE.
For more information on the different classification of bottles, see here.
The Mt Baker Vapor link is dead among some of the others but what’s the bottom line? I’ve found that PET is about or slightly better than HDPE however it’s not recommended for reuse where HDPE can be reused numerous times. Then MBV says they use LDPE! You stated above that you are 100% PET now, so obviously you’ve found convincing data on the subject. I lean towards PET myself, however the above articles still leave some confusion on the matter.
To make matters worse, I found an article explaining that there is a difference between PET and PETE. Others say they are one and the same.
I saw the NYT article on Wayback but not the MBV…so thx for posting it. I have an account at archives.org there and am used to using it but for some reason it didn’t show up.
Okay, so MBV recommends LDPE! What conclusions have you drawn and what are you using now? I’m honing in on you simply because I know you buy a lot of bottles for your customers.
@muth I use PET for ALL of my bottles, EXCEPT my 10ml SFT bottles. Everything else is PET.
The article above, which IS reachable via the Way Back Machine, states that PET if worn out, and wrinkled COULD possibly release
If any of mine get wrinkled, they get tossed. I’ve not 100% directly researched leaching of LDPE vs. PET, but PET is rock solid, until it gets damaged. PENETRATION however is a BIG ISSUE with LDPE. You can easily test this. Mix up a random custard @ 10-15% whatever the recipe calls for, add your NIC, and mix into TWO bottles, one PET, and one LDPE, and let them steep. You will soon see the LDPE gets darker MUCH quicker, and can and will turn VERY dark. This is because LDPE is porous, and WILL let elements pass THROUGH the plastic, which is why juices get soo dark sitting in them.
If you are really concerned, then use glass. You will probably have the same issues with the droppers, and rubber bulbs that most of us do, BUT, glass is the best. I didn’t take pics, but I did the aforementioned side by side test, and after a few months the LDPE bottle (juice) with NIC was going towards black, (very dark), and the PET had the nice golden yellow color.
That was it for me, and ALL of my LDPE juices, flavors, shots all went into PET.
I found the MBV article. I also just bought a load of PET bottles because I prefer them myself. A crinkle is easy to spot but I was wondering about the average reuse of these, the possible unseen damage. I don’t scrub out my bottles with anything that could scratch them, either, so I figure I’m good until a wrinkle happens, agreed?
