Flavour Burning- odd discovery! Explain?

E-liquids Flavors
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I’ve had issues before with flavouts tasting burnt at" high" wattages, even as an MTL vaper , which means that my wattage doesn’t go that high!

But here’s an odd thing. I recently purchased Medicine Flowere’s Sauvignon Blanc, and it is so damned gorgeous , i persisted and persisted with trying to get round the burnt taste issue, in a way that I’ve never persisted before.

My favourite kit these days is Nautilus X. I’m really really impressed with these “U-tech” coils, and have even been tempted to dip a bit more than a tentative toe toe into sub-ohm water, since Aspire brought out the Pock-Ex AIO- which uses same coils at 0.6 ohm! But that’s beside the point.

The point is in my flavour notes:

Woot!. This smells just like Virgin Vapor’s old flavour “In Vino Veritas” , as I recall it. I had hoped this would turn out to be the case. I orderered a sample of that years ago, and straightway decided to order some, only to find they’d withdrawn it from their range! I think I might have stumbled on the reason. Damn.

…

First tried it in a Nautilus X tank, 1.8 Ohms at 12 watts. And it tasted burnt. Ugh. Turned down the wattage and the flavour improved, but had to go too low for that tamk to perform very well :frowning: Eventually switched to using a Kanger EMOW , with 1’5 ohm dual coil. the matching 1600 mAh VV pen, et voila! The flavour really shines on that device, all the way up to maximum voltage (4.8) So…lack of heat stability, I guess :frowning: . But I dunno why it burns on one device and not the other. I checked Ohm’s law and the wattage on that kit goes well within the wattage range on the Nautie X, but no burning! So is it really an issue with those coils rather than wattage?

Is it? I’m now intersted to learn what coils/ wattages others have tried with this flavour? and with what results?

And what about other flavours that are susceptible to burning? did others find that a change of kit w/o change of wattage fixed the problem?

[EDIT: : PS. I seem to have aciddntally deleted my flavourt notes whilst copying! :rofl:. Ah, well, I’ll copy back and reconstiture the bits I left oput (I do recall them, thankfully)

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Briefly what u are doing is vaping too high wattage for the coil in that its not wicking fast enuff. 2 diff coils at the same ohms may not be the same in the way it wicks w/smaller airholes, whatnot.

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Thanks, but nope! that wattage is within Aspire’s recommended range for that coil, and it works beautifully with other flavours. i have to go way below the recommended range to stop the Sauvignon Blanc tasting burnt- way too low for the coil to perform well.

I’m thinking that the Kangretech coils have a radically different design from the Nautie coils, and that this different design is somehow the crucial factor here

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+1 for worm1’ comment. You could try increasing the PG:VG, thinner juice should wick faster.

Coils don’t always work well withing the recommended wattage range. I tried the Aspire Nautilus o.7 ohm coils and found them to be pretty well useless. Aspire never should have released them IMO.

I use RTA’s now its been a game changer for me, much more versatile and a huge bump in flavor quality.

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i think i’d better point out that i’ve vaped a hundred or so different juices using the same coil, all made to the same formula, just different flavouring addedl , and that coil works jstt fine at that wattage with my other flavours.

One thing that attracted me to that coil is that it wicks high VG juices well. I don’t use PG at all because I’m allergic to it. No choice in the matter. I do, however use distilled water to thin the juice.

The problem is definitely specific to that particular flavour. And it’s not that the wick is butning. I do know what burnt wick tastes like! and I also know that you can’t fix a burnt wick, after the event, just by turning down the wattage. Once it’s burnt, it’s burnt. This is isn’t burnt wick taste, it’s burnt juice taste! I’ve had the same thing with some strawberry flavours before- but i never thought to try a different tank.

So it looks to me that even though the juice is wicking just the same, and coil heating up to the usual temperature (whatever that is) that temperature is too high for that particular flavour . Well,… it’s known that some flavours lack heat stabilty, so that’s not a huge surprise. What is a surprise, from that perspective, is that it works just fine with the Kangetech coil

So maybe I’m on the wrong track, or maybe the Kanger coils just don’t get so hot as the Aspire u-tech coils do? (these are very different design to the normal nautilus coils, btw. No comparison) Maybe the lower resisrance of the kangetech coils meant they just didn’t get quite so hot (given that i was using them at a similar wattage?) . Hmm, that makes sense.

My technical knowledge is very limnited, so i’m hoping some techie here can work this out?

In any case,I’m pretty sure you can’t put it down to a wicking probl;em,… for all the reasons stated.

Sorry I didn’t explicitly state how much I’ve used that nautie-x coil before, but then, I thought i’d said it was my favourite coil? and it seems to me that implies that i use it a lot.

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Hmm. Further to my rreply to Cooper, above, i do think i’ve nailed it here. Not only did the Nautie -X coil I was using have higher resistance than the Kanger coil, it 's one really chunky coil with loads of cotton stuffed into it, so i don’t think it would dissipate heat very fast!

However, I’d still like further opinions. and hey! is there a chart available somewhere giving operational temerature for different coils? If I’m right, that’s gonna be the crucial factor for flavours like this , isn;'t it?

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I don’t think that this chart exists. It would have to be specific to each manufacturers coil, simply stating that any coil of x ohms = y watts wont work, It’s a little more complicated than that. The watts required to give a descent vape has more to do with the volume of metal within the coil than the resistance.

For example, a coil mad from 22 gauge wire with 5 wraps will have lower ohms and require less power to run than a coil with the same wire and 10 wraps. I have 2.5 ohm coils that run well between 20-40 watt and 1.8 ohm coils that run between 9 - 15 watts. Ohms do not mean much to me because I use regulated mods.

Before I started wrapping my own coils I assume that low ohms = high watts but I’ve since learned that this is not the case.

I can’t explain your burnt flavor phenomena, very strange. I do like the sound of a Sauv Blanc juice though, yummy!

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thanks, cooper. yes it is a really yummy juice :slight_smile: worth changing kit for, IMO.

I would not build own coils because, franky, i’m just too clumsy, sigh and getting worse rather thasn better (degenerative neuro condition) , prolly shouldn’t mix own juice, really, but i make sure i do it on a “good” day.

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It’s possible that the dual coil set-up is producing more calories and producing more vapor without having to reach as high of a temperature as the single coil does to produce the same amount of vapor.

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I’ve run across several flavors that are temp sensitive (whether you translate that to power or not, it is effectively the same). Meaning: some flavours prefer lower Temps. Others require higher heat before they begin to bloom. (As though we didn’t already have enough problems just finding the flavor profile we’re looking for right?)

But yes, the above is further compounded by inconsistent hardware, measuring methodologies, accuracy, etc.

The only concrete tip I can suggest when you run into the issues with hardware, trust what your senses are telling you. Screw what the hardware says. But once you sort out which hardware is performing like you think it should (according to your needs), then mix for that hardware.

Some materials just aren’t up to the same quality, and standards as others.

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Good points!

I just want to quibble with this though: “whether you translate that to power or not, it is effectively the same”. because my initial confusion was born from my assumption that temperature can be mapped directly onto power, which clearly it can’t. Other factors such as coil design, as well as resistance are crucial, of course. Hmm, 'twas rather a silly assumtion, come to think.

My interest in operational temperatures for coils is really born of the fact that we are sharing recipes here, it would be really nice to be able to predit whether my recipe would work with your kit, and vice versa wouldn’t it?

I suppose the best we can do, to help each other out- is to make a note temerature sensitivity, whenever we run accross it. eg “this flavour wors best at high temeratures” or “This flavour burns at high temperatures” .

It would be very nice to be able to state what temperature range the juice likes, but then, it looks like none of us know what temperature our kit is running at anyway, so we’re fucked there. :laughing: .We can only deduce that temperature goes up when we turn the power up which should be true…just so long as we don’t change our coil.

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Two words: Temperature Control

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Ah yeah. I was just thinking same. but then TC is kinda limiting isn’t it? and not everybody wants to go there. So…what we really need is for a bunch of TC buffs to volunteeer to try all the flavours for us…then try same flavours on a range of other kits for comparison. You offering? :grin:

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I’m afraid my flavour cabinet is too limited for such an undertaking. Otherwise I certainly would volunteer :wink:

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I’m glad you got what I was getting at. :smile:

Precisely my conclusion.

With the inconsistencies of pre-made coils (from choice of wire material, to quality of the refinement of the material composition [ie: Chinese stainless /= Swedish or Japanese stainless]), to the variables in the level of monitoring capabilities (how often they *can/do* receive the sampled data) of the chipset selected, to the actual algorithm used (firmware), to the variables in construction (wire length, quality/Temp of the solder joint) which even affects some DNA mods (think Hcigar which were not calibrated during the factory process, when others like Therion are reported as having it done).

There’s just too many variables.

It’s also part of the reason IMO why certain people latch onto DNA and YiHi (etc) vs “El Cheapo”. Because they narrow “the margin of error” out of the gate.

At the same time, I think it also (generally) explains why some folks are just as happy using the more “price effective” brands. I think it’s typically safe to assume that you’re going to get a consistently comparable level of experience from products delivered by the same family (of chipsets) from the likes of Joyetech, or Innokin, etc. At least until the next “major” change in technology rolls out.

Just my thoughts though, and YMMV. :wink:

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If they were all accurate, and equal, that’d be ideal.
But the point I’m trying to make is, they’re not.

Both Phil Busardo and DJLsb have shown wide variances in power output vs what’s stated. Why would you think the temp is going to be any more accurate on the same mod that something as basic as power mode isn’t accurate on?

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I got your point, and yes people using TC on different setups, will not have exactly the same temp even if the mod is set at the same temp. But it would still give you an idea of whether we are talking hot, cold or somewhere in the middle.

(And at least DJLsb also measures the actual temp for SS and provides the TCR settings for max accuracy, though it can still vary depending on wire etc.)

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That’s all I was trying to address. :slight_smile:

You can get the same idea with power though (whether VV or VW). :wink:

Don’t get me wrong! I’m a huge fan of TC!
But it’s primary intent, and reason for implementation, was to prevent the burning of cotton.

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Btw, just to make it clear: the Aspire U-tech coils really do work best within manufufacturers recommended range, in my experience. Turning the power down to the point where the juice stopped burning did not result pleasant experience. I wasn’t getting a proper draw on the thing at all, and i was being tantalised by the improved flavour , rather than enjoying it! The only good thing about it was that the flavour was finally tasting like it should…if rather faintly.
I have other issues with those Kanger aero tanks. You get a lovely vape with them, when they’re working, but the manufacturere’s coils are too often duds (or rather were. Latest batch seems fine) , and for some reason (again, would need a techie to explain it) they only seem to work really well with those fiddly VV pens that don’t stand stand up by themselves (grrrr) . Oh! and they are bottom filling, and i’m a bit forgetful (I’m sure you can use your imagination here) .
On the plus side- they come in a wide range of pretty colours, and they turn out to be perfect for some juices, so i’m pretty attached to them anyway.
(Oh! and also i bought a whole load of them ridiculously cheap when the nasty EU regulations were about to hit Britain, cos they are not “TPD compliant” .)

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