Florida Vaping legislation /internet sales ban!

General The Pub
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This bill is awful and would prohibit online device and e-liquid/nicotine purchases in Florida.

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A bill (SB 810) that would ban direct-to-consumer online sales is scheduled for the first of several committee meetings on

Monday, January 21, 2020
10:00 AM
Committee on Health Policy
Pat Thomas Committee Room, Rm 412
Knott Building
601-631 Duval St
Tallahassee, FL

Please take a moment to send a message to committee members. Below, CASAA is providing contact information, talking points, and a prewritten comment that you can customize and paste into your email.

Note: Florida’s 2020 Legislative Session is scheduled to end on March 13, 2020.

SB 810 bill sponsors are taking the opportunity to update the state’s minimum tobacco sales age to 21, which is now federal law, to implement a ban on online sales. While some might believe that this will be an advantage for specialty retailers, the reality is that banning online sales only hurts people who don’t have access to a vape shop. Moreover, online age verification platforms are available that are arguably more thorough and reliable than ID checks at a physical point of sale.

Committee Contact Information:

Gayle Harrell ®
Chair (850) 487-5025 harrell.gayle.web@flsenate.gov @Gayle_Harrell
Dennis Baxley ® (850) 487-5012 baxley.dennis.web@flsenate.gov @dennisbaxley
Aaron Bean ® (850) 487-5004 bean.aaron.web@flsenate.gov @AaronPBean
Manny Diaz ® (850) 487-5036 diaz.manny.web@flsenate.gov @SenMannyDiazJr
Ed Hooper ® (850) 487-5016 hooper.ed.web@flsenate.gov Facebook
Debbie Mayfield ® (850) 487-5017 mayfield.debbie.web@flsenate.gov @debbie_mayfield
Lori Berman (D)
Vice Chair (850) 487-5031 berman.lori.web@flsenate.gov @loriberman
Lauren Book (D) (850) 487-5032 book.lauren.web@flsenate.gov @Book4Senate
Janet Cruz (D) (850) 487-5018 cruz.janet.web@flsenate.gov @SenJanetCruz
Darryl Rouson (D) (850) 487-5019 Rouson.Darryl.web@flsenate.gov @darrylrouson

Suggested Talking points to include in your messages, calls, and spoken comments:

  • Share your story with officials about switching to vapor products instead of continuing to smoke. (Be sure to mention any health changes you’ve experienced.)
  • Online sales bans deny access to safer alternatives to people who can’t travel to a vape shop. At the same time, this ban would protect sales of combustible cigarettes which are sold in almost every convenience store and gas station in Florida.
  • Third-party age verification platforms are already required by several states for online sales and are arguably more reliable than face-to-face ID checks.
  • Banning online sales ignores the primary sources of nicotine products for young people. Namely social sources like friends and family and social media platforms like Twitter, Snapchat, and Instagram.

Prewritten Message to Copy and Paste into Emails and Contact Forms ( 2301 characters ):
I am writing as a voter and taxpayer in Florida urging you to oppose SB 810, which would ban direct-to-consumer online sales of vapor products. While I agree that more can be done to discourage young people from buying nicotine products, SB 810 goes way beyond what is necessary to enforce Florida’s existing ban on the sale of vapor products to minors. Instead of preventing youth access, this law will deny law-abiding people who smoke access to safer alternatives to combustible tobacco.

Since August of 2016, The Food & Drug Administration has been vigorously enforcing federal regulation which prohibits sales to minors–both in-store and online. The vast majority of online sellers now use a service that checks the age and identity of the purchaser against a third-party government database. Several states such as Illinois, North Carolina, and Ohio require online retailers to use an independent, third-party age verification service that compares information available from public records to the personal information entered by the person during the ordering process that establishes the person is of legal purchase age or older. This requirement is effective in preventing youth access while still allowing adults to legally purchase these life-saving products at their convenience.

While Florida is growing rapidly, there is still much of the state that is off the beaten path. As such, many people who smoke who would benefit from switching to smoke free products do not live near a specialty vapor shop. For those who are unable to travel to the nearest city to buy vapor products, online sales are their most reasonable option. Meanwhile, nearly every convenience store and gas station in the state features combustible tobacco products prominently behind the cash register. In an era where harm reduction strategies are being implemented for other issues, it doesn’t make sense that Florida would make it more difficult for people to access safer alternatives to cigarettes.

Please oppose SB 810.

I along with my fellow members of The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA) thank you for considering my comments on this issue. I look forward to your continued support in protecting my access to vapor products and would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

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Otherwise known as “Those Who Have Been Paid Off”.

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Thank you for taking the time to post this up @HVPGH.

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Fight it as hard as you can! I’ve been living under such a ban for longer than I care. Once it’s in place, it’s really difficult to get rid of and I can tell you, B&M stores don’t always have stuff that suit your style of vaping… (not to mention ridiculous pricing).
Always risking fines / losing money and equipment because you don’t want to go back to smoking… it really sucks big time.

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Ditto what Suomynona wrote. I’m in another state with the flavor ban in effect. Once ours is theoretically over then there’s only 1 month before the pmta deadline. He’s right about hardware, how many B&M’s have carried the atty or mod you really wanted? And how many will still be around in our 4 months? And in this state (Montana), we don’t have many.

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How can they stop someone living in a state that has no such restrictions from shipping said contraband as a “gift”. Is the state going to open packages for inspection? We’re not taking about drugs (nicotine excluded) for crying out loud; they are going to bust someone for an ATTY or MOD???

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I don’t know for sure how they do it, but they do it. I’m living within the EU and you’d think without border/customs crossing, I could order from neighboring countries. Wrong!
Most of them don’t even take the risk of selling to Belgian customers anymore because they can’t guarantee the package will be delivered. I think since most postal mail goes through automated sorting centers, known senders are just flagged and those packages will be picked up and removed from the chain.
Belgium is less than a fifth the size of Florida, I’m sure you guys have as much (or more) automation and that just makes things really easy for the government. And if they make sure the delivering company bears responsibility, then USPS or any other delivery company will do a fair effort to track those packages.

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From private individuals to private individuals? I’m not taking about ordering from a company.

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That is of course difficult to spot, but most people order their gear and liquids from businesses, not individuals :wink:
I can of course ask family in neighboring countries to send me gear and even liquids but that’ll only drive up shipping costs and seriously? People should just be able to order their stuff online. Put proper age checks in place, everybody can live with that.

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In my case, in my state, its a flavored juice ban. I’m still free, and still do, order attys and mods as I’m able. I diy and have done for a long time, but there are a few commercial juices that I crave and periodically order, Tango Melon by Transistor is one. No one can tamper with the USPS mail delivery per se…it’s the online retailers who won’t take the risk by shipping to me. And unfortunately I don’t have any friends or family out of state that I’d consider asking. And as an adult, I shouldn’t have to. So I can wait until my short window is again open, but at that point, will this juice be available, or will those sites selling it still be around? I feel for you Florida folks. Stock up now.

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One way or another “they” are going to restrict and or prohibit the industry to the point where only the fat cats and deep pocket donor cronies are the only game in town. The black market being created is going to be a large one. Prohibition doesn’t work.

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They can… think USPS UPS etc… now think… AFT…

thanks @HVPGH for sharing this…

Let’s hope it wont pass.

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Suomynona, given the extreme difficulties that Belgian vapers face, how are you coping? If you don’t mind my asking, how are you getting your e liquid? Are you totally diy these days, or do you travel across the border for purchases? Even getting liquid nicotine is prohibited there, is that right? Please enlighten me.

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Aren’t people going to Florida for oxy?

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NO - Florida cracked down on opiates in a big way. You can’t get more than a 7 day prescribed supply unless you are basically undergoing palliative treatment for a terminal disease.

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Yeah my info isn’t up to date I guess…

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With regards to liquids, I only DIY and I still have quite a lot of nicotine to keep me going for a while. In due time, I’ll order some more, either abroad and picking it up myself or I’ll need to ask a supplier to label it as something else. The rest of base liquids and concentrates are still available for online purchase BUT customs are giving people a hard time when there’s anything vape related in the company name. Anything coming from outside the EU can take up to 3 months to arrive.
The stupid thing is, you can order 0 nic liquids (short fills) as much as you want online. If you pop in the vape shop and buy a big box of the legal 18mg boosters, then what’s the difference from ordering ready made liquids? TPD regulations don’t allow us anything higher than 20mg nic… just another way of artificially increasing the price for nicotine. It’s bloody expensive too. Also it can’t be sold in larger bottles than 10ml so you’ll end up with an ecological disaster. Just serve 1 big bottle instead of all these small things than end up everywhere.

Hardware is a whole different thing. Within the EU, there shouldn’t be any control but there is. It’s a painful and extremely time consuming effort to find shops that a) have the hardware you want and b) want to ship to Belgium. Until now, the UK has been the easiest source for me but in a few days, those doors will close with all the brexshit stuff. That means customs checks for anything from the UK. It’ll be slow, painful and expensive. I’ll likely have to find a way to ship my stuff abroad and have a private person ship it to me or pick it up. One advantage is though that 1h driving to the north, south or east takes me across the border… but it’s still a royal pain in the butt.

B&M stores here largely cater for the average vaper. You’ll find the regular Smok, Vaporesso etc devices with commercial tanks but it’s not my thing. I recently bought an Aegis Legend and the Jackaroo for my days at the beach in summer but otherwise I swear by DNA mods… it’s just too high-end for most local shops so they won’t carry anything like that. The choice for an RDA/RTA is also very restricted. So far, I’ve never seen anything I would buy in a shop and whatever I see that is available is about 3 times the price you pay for online.

I’ll survive it all and luckily I don’t have shiny-itis, I don’t need every new piece of equipment. I can of course take a chance ordering from a Chinese company, not every package is opened by customs and sometimes you can fool the guys. The Chinese usually label packages as “gloves” or “metal tubing” without even asking, but if you get caught, you lose your package and get a 100€ fine. I even read a guy got fined receiving a giveaway so he didn’t actually purchase anything online.

So yeah, it’s survivable but I don’t wish it upon anybody, it’s stupid legislation and it doesn’t serve its purpose.

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Perhaps a shop would order a DNA mod for you, pre-paid or with a deposit.

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It would be nice but if the local distributors don’t have it in their range, you’re asking the shop to break the law. I’m not saying none of them would do it to keep you as a customer but it’s really better if the laws don’t push people to breaking them. There are other solutions to whatever issues they’re trying to solve.
It’s really hard to stop progress. They can put bumps in the road and bring a lot of misery to people but eventually they’ll have to admit is a losing fight. All the time, money and energy they spend in trying to stop vaping could be much better spent.

And about that DNA mod… The last one I bought was when I was abroad. I paid about €90 for it, shipping included and the exact version I wanted. I could get it at home too for about €280-300 in a color that wasn’t really my preference, but definitely not every vape shop would sell those types of mods. Restricting the market like that will automatically bump up all the prices because in 1 go all the competition is gone.

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Yes, it would be ideal if laws didn’t do that. However, just because something has become a law, it doesn’t automatically make it just or moral. There have been many laws throughout history in which people have pushed back on them by breaking them. Yes, we risk the ire of the law, but sometimes you just have to say fuck them. The vaping laws in the EU, or the US, aren’t going to change if everyone just follows them.

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