From the Flavor Laboratories Labs

Hello (again) Deborah, how are things in the lab @Lois_Lane ?



Very busy. People are just figuring out who really made the flavors as some brands and brick and mortars close down. Such as I OWN the formulas to Jam Monster initial classic flavors that put them on the map and I no longer will sell to JM. Strawberry Jam, Grape Jam, Blackberry Jam, and Blueberry Jam.

I refused to add diacetyl so they add acetyl propionyl for the “butter toast” ex post facto. AP is still a cousin of diacetyl. On a healthier note – I am vaping Pumpkin spice because Covid HATES ginger, nutmeg, cinnamon and clove. It’s not legal to make those claims, I get that…but if your curious what I personally would find helpful is anything in the spice family. I am diabetic Type 1 so I am very high risk covid and anything that could possibly keep me from getting that crap is OK by me. Antibacterial, antifungal, and antiviral effects of three essential oil blends
That dot gov site has many valid studies about the power of essential oils but it is also VERY important not to have too much in a formula as too much can be toxic. So parts per million is vital to not over do it. I am seeing people OVER DO it.

Also, PG and VG are great humectants I find for lung elasticity. Microorganisms and viruses cannot live in PG–for starters. Even morgues infuse the air with propylene glycol to kill any bacteria or organisms. I was hoping someone in the vaping world would do the studies needed to prove a formulation like I described above because I cannot see any negatives about this approach other than over doing it. Honey is also helpful which I noticed the dot Gov site above also had a link to how great honey is. We do use real honey in my formulations. So a flavor such as “CHAI” is also an excellent choice - which is honey, vanilla, a bit of black or green tea, cinnamon, cardamom, nutmeg and clove. Banana is another good selection as (believe it or not) clove is a top note in most banana formulations.

This also goes to say Bubble Gum another great choice. Bubble gum has clove (the finish note) in most bubble gums. But also bronchodilators such as peppermint and a touch of menthol, banana and the other spices serve a bubble gum formulation very well. It my personal opinion the custards are the worst thing a person can vape because a huge amount of diacetyl WILL be created by HEAT of the vape if not already present in the formula.

I will give you an example of what I mean. When vendors claim “no diacetyl” I think those tests are WORTHLESS. Show me how much diacetyl is in a formula AFTER it hits the heat of a vaporizer. THAT is important, not pre-vape tests. A cup of green coffee beans has ZERO diacetyl but after they are roasted suddenly there is 500 mgs in them ! That is fine if your just drinking coffee. But it should not be in your lungs.

I did notice some people from here came in to “test” our flavor - which is fine, but they need to understand we are prudent with any kind of butter notes. And we do not sell any custards. Even our Crème Brulee is made more with milk lactones and not butter dependant at all. I hope my insights help others. And I hope everyone has a GREAT WEEKEND!!


Session Drummer I will allow you to quote any part of the long letter above in the right areas as long as you give me credit and do not blow it out of context. I do not have the time to hang out but I see so many people misguided about certain things and I hate to see that happen. Everyone seems to want their loot but in the end few want to ‘give back’ and help people. They seem to be LLCS with “no real name” ready to cut and run if they do have to be held responsible for something they did sell.


I would say both are important, relatively speaking.

But even before we go there…consider this:

After 6+ decades of in-depth, documented, and scientifically valid research has been accumulated, don’t you find it the “least bit” relevant, that in over 60 YEARS plus there’s not been a single reported instance of illness related to diacetyl and smoking.

Which I would remind folks that there’s hundreds to thousands of times higher diacetyl et al content in cigarette smoke than what there is in vaping.


In one legal case Conagra Foods had to pay a guy MILLIONS because for ten years he would pop popcorn TWICE a day and “inhale” the microwaved bag to bring back memories of his youth. Creepy thing to have to do-but he needed a lung transplant and ANYONE involved (even the bag maker) had to pay up. This is what started the diacetyl alarm. In another action, several people stirring diacetyl at the actual plant where they made diacetyl ALL needed lung transplants. Anyone who worked in that non-ventilated room. In recent actions same issues…I am not sure if I am allowed to post links in here but here is a glimmer of what actions as of late about diacetyl…

Cases like this are endless. I WISH it was not true but it is VERY true and JUST the popcorn sniffing dude’s case Conagra Foods had to pay major amounts of money to be done with is WHY few flavor companies wanted to even mess with vape people. No insurance will cover that. Food Grade materials [FEMA] are fine for food but no one ever approved them for inhalation. So most of my flavorist friends I go to conventions with and skiing with – they are into flavoring beer, wine, energy drinks, making bank…did not need that new market anyways. I am the only flavorist I know who vapes. So, yes, Diacetyl is not safe at all to go into lungs - but it can naturally form just when heat hits certain materials. Even a real strawberry has trace amounts of diacetyl in it. Butter you eat? You are looking at 60% of it being diacetyl.


Do you have a link to the case, or any reference/links to legal document(s) about this? (case number/ID would be just as good)

Why am I even…
Sorry @robin. This isn’t supposed to have anything to do with vaping (it’s a laptop battery thread).


I did NOT know that !!!

I did not know that either…

Deborah (@Lois_Lane), very glad every time you TAKE the time to stop in. I learn something every time. Sorry to hear about the JM situation, as it sounds frustrating to say the least. Please stay safe and healthy.


Thank you very much, and agreed.


Wayne Watson

But there is no shortage of those stories.
Sorry @Robin Im just learning this blog. I’ll stay out of your topic.


Thank you very much @woftam. @Lois_Lane, we are free of the laptop thread, so we can have at it here.



No worries. It all good. This is all very interesting.