How much do you worry about “unclean” ingredients?

E-liquids Flavors
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I appreciate that the site contains information about potentially harmful ingredients, though I haven’t entirely decided how much it should be weighted.

It seems to me some of the warnings are certainly more potentially harmful than others, though I’m still trying to get that rating down(i believe it is colour coded)

I decided on my first mix or two to go with a recipe as it with with the exception of using DX coconut.

I’m tempted to try and make a recipe as is and then try to replicate a “clean” version if I really like it - I suppose others have done the same.

Do you let this sway you on the flavours you choose? At what point would you be / are you concerned? It’s an eye opener to commercial juices and nice to have the option but I need to do some reading on actual risks - and I’m sure smoking is far worse in every way, but harm reducing the harm reduction can’t be a bad idea.

Thanks for your thoughts b

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Are you referring to the warnings on the flavor pages?
As far as I’m aware some of the incredients are questionable, however they are widely used in other products and I believe in much higher concentrations.
So yes, it’s not good to have these compounds in your mix but if you want to cut down on these chemicals I’d investigate my foods first before I go after the vaping flavours.
If you can live with the DX versions of some flavors then go for it. That avoids the problem completely.

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I think some
Of these things relate to vaping specifically. For example the popcorn butter flavouring containing diacetyl, when eaten wasn’t an issue afaik. It may be an issue when inhaling it. I believe there are several flavourings (and other items in life)that fall into this - fine to eat, may be toxic when inhaled.

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Possible that it’s different when inhaled. So there are no long term studies i guess and we’ll have to wait and see. On the other hand, thisstuff has been around in vaping products for how long now? 15 years? Of course that is not good enough to be sure but it’s a better time frame than what we have for the corona jabs, eh?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Please ignore the last part :laughing:

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@Aphonic you will get quite a few responses to this one. An NO ONE can tell YOU what is “safe”, BUT, I can share my story.

In the beginning, I specifically tried to avoid DAAP, Diketones, and used many of the V.2’s, or DX versions of flavors. Ran like that for a while, but started doing research, Most of it centered around diacetyl, as it was ALL the buzz a while back. You remember, “If you vape any D, you’ll GET popcorn lung”, right ?
Well, what I found was almost COMICAL if it wasn’t so true, AND, the fact that soo many of us had been intentionally MISLEAD.

In the study, Allen et al. found that the average diacetyl content of the products tested was 9.0 micrograms per e-cigarette cartridge. Assuming that a vaper uses one cartridge per day, the average daily inhaled dose of diacetyl associated with vaping is therefore 9.0 micrograms.

Fujioka and Shibamoto conducted a study to measure the diacetyl exposure from active smoking. They found that the average diacetyl content of the cigarettes tested was 335.9 micrograms per cigarette. Assuming that a smoker consumes one pack per day (20 cigarettes), the average daily inhaled does of diacetyl associated with smoking is therefore 6718 micrograms.

Table 1. Average inhaled daily diacetyl dose associated with smoking vs. vaping
Vaping: 9 micrograms
Smoking: 6718 micrograms

Daily exposure to diacetyl from smoking is therefore 750 times higher, on average, than exposure to diacetyl from vaping.

WAIT A MINUTE. There’s 750 times MORE D, in cigarettes than in vaping ?? WHUT ?? !!! I don’t remember hearing THAT FACT on the news stories. Hmmmmm, interesting. They kept warning me that if I vaped D, I would SURELY get Popcorn Lung.

If there’s 750 times MORE in cigarettes, then OBVIOUSLY, EVERYONE who smokes would get popcorn lung, right ??

Ummmm, no.

SO, moving on, I decided for myself, it was a lot of CRAP that was being thrown at vapers, and as part of a misinformation campaign.

  1. Does this mean Vaping is completely safe ? No.
  2. Does this mean Vaping is probably hundreds (actually much higher), safer than smoking ? Yes.
  3. Would it be safer, healthier to not smoke OR vape ?? Yes.

I now choose whatever flavors I want, and do so with a clean conscience.

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To ADD to this @Aphonic what I HAVE shunned are:

  1. Any flavors with added coloring.
  2. Any flavors with Sugar (I cheat, and still use FW Yellow Cake).
  3. Certain flavors with a naughty history like TPA Banana Ripe.
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Very true point, although “toxic” may be a stretch. See my post above regarding diacetyl.

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I don’t worry or actually think about it. If I have v1 and it tastes good I don’t bother ordering v2.

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Yes, I am aware if this - and also that the toxic lung whatever it was called in late 2018 when I left was relevant to illegal weed carts cut with some weird oil, yet it was absolutely the final nail for getting this ridiculous legislation through.

This has kind of been my thought so far. Because I’m getting started I’m tempted to just sub out when I can - or look for recipes that allow that or minimise those ingredients, if I don’t taste the OG, what’s been happening so far is I use a substitute and then tweak to what I like. Probably not a pure recipe as intended but at the end of it tastes good, cool.

That was only used as a best choice word. Though toxicity is probably accurate it’s a bit inflammatory without stating levels and such. Anyway I take the point and what I need to read up on are the derivations. I’m actually not overwhelmingly worried about diacetyl though if I can cut it I will- I just need to go through a list of others.

If I find a recipe that’s 5/6 of “naughty” ingredients I’ll probably pass for now until I better understand it. I did order a couple of naughty flavourings so I’ll have to consider more - but I’m sure I’ve been vaping worse commercially.

Also, I think a great deal of people are still dry burning their coils and that certainly seems more “dangerous” from what I’ve read. At least that had a proper study (afaik , I’ll be honest - I skimmed)

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Is it all sweeteners or sugar particularly? AP? EM?

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Sugar in vaping is bad. Sugar can caramelize and even burn at low temps, and produce toxins and suspected carcinogens. most other sweeteners are supposed to be ok and are made of chemical compounds or ingreadiants that react differently to heat.

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Ah, the infamous Orville Redenbacher Air Bag Syndrome. From what I remember, there have only been 9 confirmed cases, ever. Eight were from a factory where the 8 handled the ingredients on a daily basis for many years. The last was a guy who ate something like 5-6 bags of microwave popcorn for something like 15 years. Even the tobacco companies had in their records during the MSA hearings that they never found any problems with diacetyl and it’s in cigs at hundreds of times concentration than in our flavors. Yet, when you give something a catchy name it sticks in people’s unquestioning minds. My brother-in-law asked me last year if I worried about getting it. I just said no.

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It wasn’t really about the diacetyl as that’s been publicised and debunked. But when starting there there are a series of different chemicals mentioned…some of which lead to the production of diacetyl but some are other things it seems , at least to the newbies like myself. So I was curious about some of the other ones, like sugar.

Cheers.

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That totally looks like a spell checker accident… Or are you talking about a new delivery method for heroine?
:laughing:

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Hahaha. Yah I corrected the autocomplete multiple times but it keeps doing it!

I guess I need a fix.

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For that autocorrect problem i hope!

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Generally I’m not too fussed when I’m blending for myself as the possible risks of any ingredients in still in active use are minor compared to smoking two packs a day.

If I’m blending for another, then I’ll err of the side of caution and stick to DX where possible and avoid known tank crackers.

Oh and I’ll generally avoid coloured concentrates that stain the cotton, though I still use Dark Chocolate (Flavor West).and a number of smokes and oaks.

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FW Yellow Cake, for example, contains approx. 30% fructose = super. JF or OOO Yellow Cake can be used as substitutes. Why sugar? You have to remember that we primarily vape food flavorings not made specifically for vaping, but for candies, sodas and other foods.
I also avoid oils wherever possible. They are usually present in lemons, oranges and most mints.

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If not, sign me up for this new vape additive - it’d sure improve my day! I wouldn’t get much done, but who the hell cares? :wink:

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I consider vaping to be safer than smoking. So, I don’t worry with the vaping ingredients so much. However, I do mix 50/50 V1 and V2 together in my mixes when using custards and such. I found I like the results of doing this. If it is safer, all the better.

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