How to get better flavor in 50/50 ejuice?

E-liquids Beginners
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I’ve been making my own ejuice for a few months now. I only make 50/50 and pretty much only dessert mixes. My problem is that my juices taste more like PG with a hint of flavor. I’ve tried mixing anywhere between 7% and 15% and the flavor is still pretty thin. Is there something I can do to pump up the flavor to be more like store-bought/commerical juices?

Edit: I have an Innokin Zenith, usually run it on the 0.8 ohm coilat 15w and the airflow is mostly closed (2 holes open) On store bought juices, I have great flavor, but not so much with my own juices. I make my own recipes, and measure everything by weight (but I have measured by volume with the same result) I steep everything for a week to start, then try sampling it regularly after that, and shake the bottle every day or 2.

Sample recipe:
Salted Caramel (FW) 3%
Sweet Cream (CAP) 2%
Waffle (FW) 2%
Yellow cake(Cap) 5%

Total 12%

Thanks paingawd :slight_smile:

Edit 2 (in case any other 50/50 mixers are wondering the same thing I was): I’ve started mixing at 19% to 21% and I’m having a lot of success. I’m finally making consistently good mixes and frankly, this saved me from quitting mixing altogether. Thanks to all who helped out on this thread, you’re all true stars and your help was invaluable.

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If you could share a little more information about your mixes and gear, it would help the crew in getting you some assistance. Things like:

  • What recipes are you having problems with(Are they mixes of your own design or are you mixing some of the ‘tried & true’ recipes here)?

  • Judging by your ratio, I’m guessing you’re mixing for MTL atomizers? What atomizers are you using, and did they work well with store-bought juices?

  • How are you mixing? How long are you steeping?

I’m sure there’s a couple of other points I’m missing, but I think knowing these couple of bullet points would help us help you

Cheers!

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Thanks for the advice, I updated my post with more information

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@SAsher I like your Subject title for this …should draw the right attention from other Mixers working on 50/50 recipes. Don’t close your mind to a newer atomizer as a way to enjoy more flavor …hopefully you’ll get some advice there too.

"What the heck gives commercial juice that “fullness” is a big discussion here …too many opinions and likely there are actually multiple additions that do similar boosts for different type flavor profiles like Fruits or Bakeries or Custard/Creams. Might be easier to get the recipe for Coke to know what they are actually adding, that so many people like you similarly experience.

Good start already. Work one recipe at a time, and we have threads for that like “Fix my Mix”, but you are right, most people are mixing at 70/30 or no-PG so valid question, and other DIY tips might not so automatically be the answer here

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Let me start with this first, I don’t mtl and I have no idea if your percentages are too low or too high.

But I’ll try helping anyways, maybe some of these methods can help you.

My first question tho, is your overall flavor profile lacking or just some nuances/layers?

Do you have Acetyl pyrazine in your stash?
Do you have any kind of “crust” in your stash? (Example cookie, biscuit, pies, grahams, cereals, )
Do you have any kind of butterscotch?
Do you have TPA sweetener or/and ethyl maltol?
Any kind of marshmallow, thicker creams, custards, butter?
Brown sugar maybe or crème brulé?
Any vanillas or/and vanillin?
Any softer bakeries like white cake, pound cake, danishs, croissants etc?

I know I ask a lot of questions but most of the flavors you listed in your recipe are secondary or accent as well as supportive flavors. We either would have to boost them with, that they become main profile or/and use them as booster for other flavors.

Most additives I’m asking are in premium ejuices, so if that’s your goal we would have to add that as well. Just pumping up percentages as you call it, won’t be very satisfying.

Maybe you can also describe the profile you were going for with that recipe, knowing that might make it easier for us, when suggesting other flavors or current flavor and percentage changes.

Edit: BTW I did read that people get better flavor with the 0.8 ohm coil at around 17-18 watt and 3 holes open. Maybe try that too?

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That’s a great reply, thank you. It’s not the flavor profile that’s lacking, it’s the strength of flavor. I can get, for example, a Vape Wild juice that’s WOW! TONS OF FLAVOR! and then I make a mix and it’s like watered down Coke.

I’ve got quite a few of the flavors you mention (link to my stash ) and have tried going up to 18w but it’s still the same watered down flavor. I have Cap Super Sweet and usually use it at very low concentrations, from a few drops to 0.5% would using more of it pump up the flavor?

Also, I’ve wondered if it’s my bases that might have something to do with it. I have Nicotine River PG and VG and LB nicotine. Ever hear anything about the quality of Nic River’s bases?

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Thanks! I’m happy that I’m not the only one with this problem, so it looks like I’m on the right track. Just need a little fine tuning.

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You were asked how long do you steep…and did not reply to that question…Perhaps that is your problem?

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I steep everything for a week to start, then try sampling it regularly after that, and shake the bottle every day or 2.

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Re-read your first post…Saw where you mentioned your steep… Gotcha…try giving more time, especially dessert vapes…Your higher ohm, lower watt set up is OK and you prolly get good flavor from store bought juice, as they are generally made of higher %s…So with your set up, you may try increasing your flavor %s and test single flavor experiments until you get a feel for the flavors that you are dealing with… More PG in the balance does carry more flavor, but possibly harsher vapes…which can smooth out with more steep… Patience is a virtue in E juice mixing…

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Here’s my question, does steeping for, say 4 to 6 weeks, make the flavor stronger? I know a long steep will make the flavors blend better but would it make my flavors taste less watered down?

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I would say this is probably more the case. I have talked extensively with the mixers at 2 different local vape shops that only sell IN HOUSE made juice and they both agree that most of there recipes are in the 20% range for total flavoring when using the more common flavoring brands.

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Most bakeries need a 2-4 week steep, some don’t and some even longer. However during that time flavor can “thicken/get richer” especially creams. But if you using mainly ingredients that are already fluffy/airy/watery/lacking nuances and depth, even a 3 year steep/aging most likely not going to fix that lol.

Nicotine level plays also a role, some profiles just don’t work as great if you use higher/lower nic or even salts.

I personally would add some butterscotch to the caramel (low percentage), some Bavarian cream or meringue to the sweet cream, or remove it fully and pick a whole other route.
Graham cracker or donut to support the cake, or even use funnel cake as main with the yellow being the supporter. Again would have to play with percentage.
Vanilla whipped cream would overall thicken it as well, but just like other ingredients it can also mute. Staying under 4% would be recommended. Another side effect, it “balances” the overall profile, so you might lose some high notes.
AP most people use for nuts, tobacco and chocolates, however it can also add overall depth/thicker mouthfeel and moisture, if used correctly.

The reason I asked for sweetener is of the EM content. Normally I don’t suggest it but you wanted commercial juice, vape and wild as reference and don’t seem to be worried about coils. EM would together with the sucralose contained in tfa sweetener thicken it, or give the impression, while both sweeten the overall and amplify specific flavor notes.

Maybe just pushing up the percentage by 0.5 of everything might be good as well, then working up till you’re more satisfied. I just never experienced that turning out in my favor lol. Higher VG can give a less watery impression as well, maybe just trying a 60/40 or 65/35 or 70/30 might fix it.

There’s so many variables and until you try most of the suggestions and make notes, its really hard too tell.

I’m also not even sure what we were aiming for here, salted caramel sponge cake, waffles with caramel syrup, caramel/toffee chew/candy of any kind, light cheesecake with caramel or/and cake etc? Makes it even more difficult lol.

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Wow, 20%? I will give that a try, thanks!

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I am only passing along what they said.

I only do NET’s myself so can’t help on individual flavor %'s but I am sure others will

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Steep time varies … Fruits… some people will shake and vape (it depends on the flavor makeup)… I typically give fruits 2-3 weeks…What this does is to allow the flavor molecules to bind to your carrier PG/VG base… there is a blossoming process that takes place… Highly concentrated flavors like FA, Inawera, MF need to steep into the liquid in order to be of good taste… It is like Nestles Quik needing to be mixed thoroughly in the milk…rather than simply allowing it to clump up in the bottom of the glass… Or the steeping of a tea bag in a cup of water… This process all boils down to experimentation with PG/VG ratios, kinds of flavors, and mixing/ post mixing routines… I froth my mix immediately prior to steeping… This begins the assimilation process of the flavors into my PG/VG/Nic base…(better than just shaking)…Some mixes will fade, depending on other ingredients such as Ethyl Maltol (cotton candy), which tends to mute flavors over time…It is a matter of finding your own balances that work for you…

Creams generaly require 3 to 4 weeks for me, as they blend into the carrier base at a slower rate than fruit molecules…Custards require (for me) 4 to 6 weeks…

I may mix a Custard.Cream blend and steep it for 3 weeks and then add my fruits, and steep for an additional period of time…This allows my Custard/Cream to begin blossoming, and by adding the fruit later, keeps the fruit from steeping too long so as to mute…End result is that all the flavors come to a blossom at the same time by staggering my ingredients throughout the Mix/Steep process…It’s ALL about experimentation with your particular flavors

Vaping Equipment plays a big role in flavor % use… Many here who mix at lower flavor percentages tend to be HIGH wattage / LOW ohm coil builds type of vapers…as this combination tends to bring out flavors in an amplified manner… whereas LOW wattage / HIGH ohm builds type vaping does not “excite” the lower flavor % mix as readily as my earlier example…Therefore, higher flavor %s are required (for me)…But again…it is all about experimentation…and it requires a lot of time…Some people prefer a light flavor profile in their vapes…Others (such as myself) prefer a bold flavor in their vape…

Keep experimenting and documenting your procedures and %s PG/VG ratios and sooner or later, you WILL hit it out of the park… The world will turn for you… :slight_smile:

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This is a commercial juice that I vaped a bunch when I first started vaping. This recipe was released by the company when they discontinued it from there line.

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Can’t really do different ratios, the Zenith doesn’t run well on anything higher than 50/50. But I will try a higher flavor concentrations, hopefully I’ll find that sweet spot. Thanks for your help!

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I was going for a salted caramel waffle, and added yellow cake to punch up the cakey/waffle-y flavor a bit, and since Cap Yellow Cake is pretty weak, I used 5%

Since I added a few new concentrates since I created that recipe and the suggestion is to use a higher flavor % so I’d probably switch out the yellow cake for funnel cake and FW waffle for LB Belgian Waffle, plus add some butterscotch and up the % of salted caramel. What do you think of this?

Salted Caramel 6%
Belgian Waffle 4%
Funnel Cake 1.5%
Tahitian Vanilla Cream 2%
Meringue 1.5%
Butterscotch 3%

Total 18%

I want the salted caramel to be the most prominent, followed by the waffle with just a hint of full vanilla creaminess. What do you think of the ratios?

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Looks fine too me, you’re your own judge after a steep :wink:

Here’s what I would suggest as well, make two badges one the way you listed above, the other rise wf Tahitian vanilla cream to 3% and lower the meringue to 1%, then add 0.12% acetyl pyrazine.

Give it 24 hrs and then try, creams won’t have fully emerged into the liquid, but it gives you a good indication where your mix is headed. Give it another 5-10 days after and test again. It it still tastes great but isn’t “full” enough yet, steep it a bit more. That would be my advise, hopefully higher percent and switching of flavors can get you a more satisfying result. Keep us updated :slight_smile: