All good. You’ll get comfortable with it before long. Just takes doing it for a bit.
6 Likes
Dan, thank you for the information. This type of feedback just raises my confidence in proper use. I think seeing that the mix is the same throughout with the milky appearance, one can rest assured the mix has properly homogenized. I also wondered about probe depth, noticing that to close to the bottom will cause improper suction. I would suppose most of my mixes would be considered heavy as I am close to max VG.
5 Likes
Right. The path of least resistance is pure physics so some vertical movement can be necessary to establish a thorough circulation. Otherwise it can pull the thinned liquids easier.My efforts to establish a strong vacuum and vigorous mixing action with a small unit was to deal with this effect. Lots of workheads found their way into the scrap bin.
The visual process is a great way to understand what is taking place but a lot of people want to dive deeper. I am not a chemist and make no pretenses of being one. Nevertheless when @BoDarc mentioned “bonding” in another thread (at another forum) I was very tempted to delve into covalent bonding and molecular structure from a layman’s point of view. I balked, and felt like knowing that particle shearing and penetration of the VG is the object to overcome. For example, this would include “redux” oxidation reaction where the oxidation is a loss of an electron rather than an addition. Of course the “bond” is the electron and Bo was correct. Nevertheless I’m still at a loss as to whether to pursue this. What do you think.
6 Likes
Up to you, seriously. Understanding the shearing and penetration is suffice for me per the application. I don’t feel the need to understand how the electrons are traded off and reconfigured in the overall process. I have no means by which to test any theory at that level so in my mind it takes the form of a muse and not something I can apply. At an even more superficial level, when it comes down to understanding theory such as that vs learning how to get a better photograph. The photograph wins out.
9 Likes
Too funny…also sad but true. I’ve also noticed with some of the younger generations (I say some to be fair to others) there seems to be no knowledge of working with their hands, like raking leaves and mowing lawns 
Thank you…that’s what I wanted to hear. Yay!
Generation 2? Accessories? Now I’m all excited. But maybe I should learn how to use one first, sigh, can’t wait.
9 Likes
Love your down to earth, common sense way of thinking. This applies to many things; music theory comes to mind. As a music school student I attended a clinic with the late, great jazz guitarist, Joe Pass. As you can imagine, there are many theories, techniques, scales and modes, etc. A student stood up and asked, “How would you apply the Lydian mode to the such and such, blah, blah blah?” Mr. Pass’s reply was “I only know two scales, major and minor.” The auditorium fell silent in shock. They couldn’t believe their ears that this Jazz Titan said that. But it is exactly what you say about the photograph. Theory or not, it’s the music that counts. I loved that he said that and understood what he was saying. Coming from a man who lost his father and at the age of 14 helped support his mother and siblings by using his guitar, who cares about how the job got done as long as the gig paid.
7 Likes
Now yer talkin! There are many different ways to approach things. I studied modal a little and get what it is doing but a good feel for intervals is the bottom line regardless of approach. I can see where your friend would be quite satisfied with “knowing” only major and minor scales. A photograph shares many of the same postulates. There’s a technical side and an artistic side and it is a meld of the two that creates a good photograph. Also like music, just doing it a lot and paying attention to results is the best bet. Very similar, your mind’s ear or eye envisions something and you try to create it.
6 Likes
That reminds of something Keith Richards once said about playing rhythm guitar. “Sometimes I’m in front of the beat and sometimes I’m behind it. It’s the feel of the music that’s important.” He was a bit dismissive of using a metronome. Can’t argue with him on this.
5 Likes
I can envision Richards saying that. The Rolling Stones were a very sloppy band. Very much in the vogue in that time period, organic, as it was thought to be. Swing, jazz, and rag time also utilize very controlled tip and lag while not impacting tempo. For that matter I’ve used lag to control tempo. I’m not advocating the avoidance of training with my comments. I’m not a fan of the home grown musician who lives in their own bubble and imagines themselves as better because they have no training and are therefore more of a purist. Get drunk and stoned and learn C, F, and G and your a rock star. Ahhhhh… no.
5 Likes
It was indeed.
This alone.
I know I wouldn’t attempt to give a baby a bottle that is 120°F or higher…
I dunno @lukeloop, it may go higher than what I’m guesstimating. I just have my doubts is all.
Though if it does, it’s not fit for marketed purpose in my opinion if it gets something (your going to allow an infant to ingest) up to 120°F.
3 Likes
It’s far less to do with quantity, than it is about reaching the correct temp.
120°F still puts a slightly heavier load on the GC, as well as the motor/etc than what you would see if the VG was heated to 140°F.
Why? Because the viscosity of the VG is ‘thicker’ at 120 than 140.
Higher quantity of VG only means that it will take longer to get to temp. But whatever device/method is chosen still needs to achieve the minimum recommended temp. (And ideally, the temp suggested by the creator of the GC)
8 Likes
Can not agree more. Dan put a shit load of study into that recommendation and there are a ton of factors involved with that result. That was no willy nilly, shoot from the hip recommendation.
7 Likes
I intend on taking it to the recommended temperature as mentioned in my post.
6 Likes
There’s a place for everyone. I’m reminded of the joke, a rock guitarist knows three chords and has 10,000 people come to see him while a jazz guitarist knows 10,000 chords and has 3 come to see him.
6 Likes
Thanks guys. My opinion is that viscosity is only half of the equation. How soluble i.e how well substances will dissolve and bond together is the other half. VG is known to have poor properties as a solvent and is the cause of the “steep” time. The flavor materials do not penetrate, infuse, bond, or whatever term is chosen, they don’t mix with VG very easily. Thinning or reducing VG’s viscosity or thickness does help but raising the temperatures of nearly all chemicals increases how well they will dissolve.
Our concentrates come with the flavor materials dissolved in solvents, usually pg ,water, and various additives used to make a stable concentrate. They last for years if stored properly. I have some 3 or 4 years old that are fine.
We can use the concentrates to make one shots quickly without heat. Woftam posted a video early on that demonstrates the GC making them that way. I’m pretty sure that Zippy/Flavour Chaser uses 50 C though.
We can of course use them in foods and beverages etc without the “steep”. I have a firm belief that VG is the obstacle to overcome for our purposes and the combination of mechanical forces and heat is the way to solve it.
6 Likes
And the pentatonic scale has sold more music than all others combined. 
hey man how are the new ears?
5 Likes
I vape 50/50 sometimes and I find the flavour to carry much better than high VG mixes, VG is definitely the issue for most recipes, I have no idea how people vape 100% VG, it baffles me.
Your GC fixes the VG issue though 100%
9 Likes
I can’t exactly say he’s my friend…wished he was. His answer to the student’s question was in a way a double entendre. All scales (which modes are built upon) boil down to either major or minor or a combo of both. He also expressed that he doesn’t consciously think about theory whilst making music. Or as one musician put it, “Learn as much as you can then forget it all when you play.” I’m starting to see how that applies to mixing recipes as well. I may have the basics down but I’ve yet to learn a lot about all the flavors. Sometimes I feel it being effortless with the flavors I know but still limited because of all I don’t know. It’s a very big cook book and it only seems to grow each day.
6 Likes
You’re mixing apples and oranges. There’s entertainment and there’s musicianship. Both can exist on a stage simultaneously but they are not the same.
5 Likes
