Hi, everybody! I’m looking for opinions on an idea and couldn’t find an existing thread on this, specifically. I think it’s an idea I’ve picked up around ELR in the past, but it’s probably buried in some random thread about creams and custards!
In trying not to ever over-flavor a recipe again, the idea occurred to me that:
If I have 5 ingredients with a similar max % recommendation of 3%, let’s take RFSC(2.5%, I know., but let’s call it 3%) as an example. Let’s also say they have similar compositions of EM, Vanillin, etc…
If I use each at 1%-1.25% in the recipe, which seems modest at first glance, I have actually over-flavored by 2%-3.25% beyond the maximum rec. because they are all similarly formulated. I feel that the total of the 5 should be close to the max of 1, or below if I’m adding 1 or 2 two other brands’ flavors on top of them.
Sound sound? What are your thoughts on this and avoiding accidental over-flavoring in general?
Over flavouring is a pretty loose term in my books and can refer to several problems.
Type 1 - Flavor disappears.
Type 2 - Flavor is too strong for an individuals taste.
Type 3 - Flavor is too strong in a recipe and unintentionally dominates.
Type 4 - Could have achieved the same result with less.
I’m not sure what my point is here
Your five ingredient example raises an interesting point, and I’m sure that it is easy to unknowingly over dose on certain elements that are shared by flavors. Something I’ve been thinking about is making new recipes as a stone, this would make it easy to mix several batches of varying total %'s and hone in on problems like your example.
If all flavors have a recommended highest % of 3%(before it mutes or develops an off-note), contain nearly equal amounts of EM or other flavor muters… the highest % you can go with one of them is 3%(hypothetically),…if you combine 5 of those at 1.25% each, you now have a total of 6.25% of a substance you should only have 3% of. So, I’m thinking if the total of those 5 ingredients was 3%, it should be cool.
ohh, k got u now w/ combined content of em or vanillin to mute…but alot use a stone in order to keep original values since the work so well at that level but at diff wattages vape differently, so they stone that and fiddle w/ the stone %
You may be overthinking this. If the end result tastes good and you achieve what you were shooting for, then you haven’t over-flavored. Irrespective of the background elements.
IMO Mfr recommended percentages are mostly inaccurate anyway because our palates widely differ.
Gotcha! I think a stone is kind of what I’m talking about doing, only live in a mix session. Like if I make a stone of all 5 flavors and use it at 3%, it would be the same outcome as long as all of the ratios are the same. Just more tedious to do it live in the recipe.
It does sound like I’m overthinking, but I think it’s just the amount of explaining I had to use to get a simple idea written out.
What others have said before. If you like a mix and you find it’s starting to mute over time, make a stone/one-shot and use it in a lower overall %.
If that makes it too lightly flavored, go back to square one and tinker with the original recipe. There are usually ways to boost flavor if you use lower % but add a hint of something else (e.g. how FA Blackcurrant is great to boost CAP Sweet Strawberry, you use a lower % but with the boost you have a stronger flavor that won’t fade away)
@TorturedZen has a point …I mean if it tastes good (?) I used to fret about high%s, and it is a good indicator of a bad (newb?) recipe …until you vape some Bust-A-Nut at 20% total flavs and the theory that 20% is automatically bad flies out the window. I have tried to lower % with little success in other people’s recipes, but I think we are too focused on the “flavor” experience alone.
It’s likely more based on chemical components/reactions in a mix, than how our brain analyzes that compiled list of (artificial!) flavor names, or sub components/ingredients. I mean some pairings are just mysteriously good for no apparent reason (re: flavor names) @Plunderdrum we may be on the same track, as I see you look deeper into CAS Data sheets and see a buildup from each flavors ingredients like Ethyl Maltol. It’s definitely been a topic that we likely vape a lot of hidden sweeteners.
Lately I have been using the Cosmic E Juice Calculator to mix two recipes and slide %s in a recipe. It’s handy to not make repeat fractional ELR recipes of the same juice, and could allow for some quick experimentation in this case. Interesting idea, but applying it across the board (?) …so many variables. Say Bust-A-Nut? Try making it @ 18% total flavoring? …or 15%? and giving a taste test against the orig. Still a good focus when making your own new recipes …if it makes them better …lower %s certainly makes them cheaper!
