Maybe ELR is just too good

[anon28032772]

@jay210

It is pretty damned absurd if you can’t just edit the flavour names.

I don’t get this.

It’s a pretty dangerous thing to do with so many trolls on the internet… you’re not talking about a personal note but something that is used by thousands of people. Just imagine what competing sites could do to bring this site to its knees in no time.

@jay210

It’s nice to know that some people (well @Suomynona, at least) have no problem using the database just as it is.

That’s not what I said Everybody will have an issue with chaos but after a while, I’ve learned to navigate through it and use the tools for why I use ELR. I’ve just chosen not to let it upset me anymore because it’s not something I can change. How I react to it is something that is within my control.

@jay210

What’s more, please let me repeat, a new user is highly unlikely to realise what a headache their typos etc will cause for other people

Whatever the reason is why those people make typos and other mistakes, I still find it unfair to blame users. They just use the tools the way they see fit and how the site lets them use it.
Blaming them that they don’t read the manual, guides or whatever isn’t going to help and is certainly not a welcoming voice to the forum.

IMO, the only thing that will change the flavor issue is to make changes to the whole process. That means more restrictions as well and I’m sure there’s big opposition among the NET or stone creators for that as well.
Sometimes you have to compromise and I totally understand the reluctance to change things unless there’s a clear, good solution that everybody can agree on.

[daath]

@anon28032772

Lars is very aware of the frustration of some users

I think, besides @TorturedZen (thank you!) - I am the one most bothered by the flavor database mess. The last year or so, I’ve been contemplating (and running experiments) on how to deal with it. Unfortunately I haven’t had enough continuous time to tackle it properly, but I do have some ideas. Some of them require a redesign of the UI (which a lot will hate, some will like). And some code that looks at prior flavor name corrections to prevent it happening again - though recently those rules would have been making a mess too (when flavoring companies start making certain flavors with the same name as certain other manufacturers). Though that could be caught and corrected.

When those related tools are in place, it will open up a possibility for a bunch of “flavor moderators”, instead of just a very very select few. The reason our flavor naming master TZ hasn’t gotten permission yet to directly alter the database, is that sometimes he is too effective - there needs to be a second (at least) pair of eyes on that work

@Sprkslfly

Lars has told me in PM a couple months ago that he was going to grant me access needed, so I’ve intentionally left those to fix later. That way there’s far less risk (if any) to the notes [vs having to create a new flavor name just for caps , and then have to merge… Etc

Yep, it has to do with the tools I mention above - I will get them done and you will be the first on board.

Regardless, as I have said many times before, in some way or other - There are many things that bother me on ELR that I would like to change, but none at the gigantic level of the flavor database.

@jay210

I’ve really missed KoW and JoJo

I miss them so much

@jay210

I don’t get this. What gives? @daath ?

When the moderation/admin tools are in place, as I mention above

@jay210

…you can click on it to read other people’s flavour notes, then you have to pick and choose between a host of variations; and whichever variation you choose, you then lose access to the other notes.

Fortunately those are chiefly the more rare flavors - most of the dupes do have one “master” that has the bulk of recipes (and flavor notes)… But as you mention yourself, some have few recipes and never really gets a “front runner” (btw I just merged Crazy Creamy Custard (Kandi Hed)).

I think the best way to add a flavor, is to first pick the manufacturer out of a list (with quick autocomplete - weight on brands you have) and then the flavor itself (with quick autocomplete - weight on flavors you have) - actually adding a flavor would require you to add it to your stash first - differently that you do now…

@anon28032772

It’s a pretty dangerous thing to do with so many trolls on the internet… you’re not talking about a personal note but something that is used by thousands of people. Just imagine what competing sites could do to bring this site to its knees in no time.

I think he meant that Sprksfly+TZ can’t edit flavor names

@anon28032772

NET or stone creators

Those will have their own “flavor brand” or category, if you will

Guys, I’m really sorry that I haven’t had the time in to work on this more effectively. I’m gonna get stuff done at some point, so I hope you can cut me a couple of light years worth of slack

[Chrispdx]

We do love you! Platonically and appreciate all the countless & thankless hours you put in that doesn’t normally get recognized.

[TorturedZen]

@daath

The reason our flavor naming master TZ hasn’t gotten permission yet to directly alter the database, is that sometimes he is too effective -

Thanx, I think.

[SessionDrummer]

@daath

The reason our flavor naming master TZ hasn’t gotten permission yet to directly alter the database, is that sometimes he is too effective

@TorturedZen

Thanx, I think.

[daath]

@TorturedZen

Thanx, I think.

It was a compliment - Don’t worry When I am “too effective”, I can usually fix it (even though it takes some effort) - I’m only saying that we do have to be careful when merging

[atssec97]

Well, this thread certainly got derailed!!! @jay210 I agree ELR is just too good!!

[TorturedZen]

@atssec97

Well, this thread certainly got derailed!!!

More like mutated. lol

[jay210]

@daath

Lars is very aware of the frustration of some users

The last year or so, I’ve been contemplating (and running experiments) on how to deal with it. Unfortunately I haven’t had enough continuous time to tackle it properly, but I do have some ideas.
…
…
…
When those related tools are in place, it will open up a possibility for a bunch of “flavor moderators”, instead of just a very very select few.

You said, somewhere, a lot of us will hate the changes, when they happen well, for my own part , i already answered that. Also looks like what I said before was spot-on

@jay210

Looks to me like that clean-up job is somewhat akin to brain-surgery, and it looks to me like @daath prefers to look for ways to make database more robust , and to, hopefully, slow the growth of the tumour without resorting to surgery . If so, I can only applaud that, though i probably won’t like any sacrifices of freedom that turns out to entail. Something has to give.

I’d just like to add that I actually do enter the flavour in my stash first (making use of that list of suggestions…when there actually is one. As I said, I do use a lot of uncommon flavours , and very often I’m the first to enter it .) But then, all-too -often I find very few flavour notes, or even none at all under my selected syntax, , so then I do a wider search using the "search " button. Then i look at all those alrternatives, and then sometimes, like Letitia, I decide to backtrack and knowingly enter the wrong syntax into my stash, instead, simply because I see a lot more notes and recipes under the wrong syntax. Make sense? The good part (from your POV) is that I somertimes, thereby, find a shedload of dupes to submit.

I can see the logic of giving the most-used flavours priority when it comes to merging dupes etc, but, on reflection, i think it would actually make more sense to invert that logic. As you said yourself:

@daath

most of the dupes do have one “master” that has the bulk of recipes (and flavor notes)

Indeed. And that means that the dupes are not really a problem to the user when using one of the popular flavours. The dupes have little effect except to offend his tidy mind. It’s only when using more unusual flavours that the dupes really screw things up. So these are the flavours that really need attention most urgently, not FA , CAP etc.

Ofc, you could say I’m being self-centred there but I really do believe that.

[Kinnikinnick]

@anon28032772

NET or stone creators

@daath

Those will have their own “flavor brand” or category, if you will

That would be a good thing!

I’ve had some PM discussion with @Sprkslfly about this topic. I’m in the slow process of renaming all of my NET creations in a better, more acceptable, and logical fashion. Early on in my NET ventures, my naming format was created for my personal viewing and tracking. As time progressed, I saw that a “global” naming format would be much better.

So, yeah… I’m working on fixing all of my listings as time allows. Eventually, I’ll sling a list of my “properly named” NET to someone, so the old ones can be deleted, merged or purged.

Thanks to all who care about the recipe side of things and want to see it arranged in a usable, logical fashion.

[Sara4]

Honestly I didn’t notice there was a forum here several months after I joined and I’m a Supporter lol!

[Lucas_James_Holden]

Well all I can say is even with all of its faults ELR is the best thing that ever happened to my DIY mixing and I would be totally lost without it.I am extremely grateful for all of the hard work that has gone into it and this forum. It took me a while to join this forum after finding ELR even though I used to read lots of it,the reason being because I have always been nervous and quite shy about joining forums but I’m so glad I did,you have all confirmed that my fears were unfounded and have made me feel very welcome. I personally keep everything private on the ELR database and only add flavours to my stash that have the highest numbers and the most notes,there are a few more obscure flavours like that from FA’s UK blends etc and I am very careful that I add what looks like the correct entry,I have actually noticed some confusion about some of the FA flavours because of the way they use the Italian names as well as the English on the labels. Now I might get into trouble for saying this but I have always thought of the other three letter database as a bit snobby and ELR as the place of the working class a bit like the BBC compared to ITV and I love this comfy and familiar old place. Thanks again.

[ladycrooks]

Well said brother , well said! I am a new user and I really do appreciate the patience alot have had with me lately. and getting angry instead of just stepping back and yes saying something a billion times is tiring …getting mad doesn’t help us …it frustrates most. and then in turn doesn’t really help in the end…

[Lostmarbles]

I get it. Patience from all sides, would be beneficial to all sides. Glad you resurrected this thread, if for nothing else, than to prove that this is an ongoing thing and not just a bunch of bullies trying to whip everyone into shape. Glad you’re giving it another chance. This has been my vape-home since the beginning. There are some good forums out there,none that I’m a participating member in, because I haven’t found one better than ELR. Hang in there, you’re part of the community.