Mixing / Adjusting for strong flavor

E-liquids Beginners
21

I really like etd allot, just personally. It’s a bit “wet” for lack of a better term. I was going for a uncolored( who needs that anyway ), slightly less wet juice. Something that was close but more tailored to me. I did find it, a few more tweaks and I’ll post it. I started with the currently published here etd clone v3 and adjusted some things. I think a few more minor tweaks next time I need to mix more and it will be dang close to perfect for me.

I have bad issues waiting, so for as little as 20ml costs I made a bunch of variations at once ( all documented ). And tasted each daily, after a weekish I was happy with one, and proceeded to make a bunch of batches.

As for other recipes, I normally add one or two percent to the flavors on published recipes, it has been working well for me in the month I’ve been doing this. So far have tried two.

Timebomb looks good, I have to make another order soon, and will make sure to get what I’m missing for that. Thanks for the suggestion.

22

High VG mutes some flavors…PG carry the flavor best. About percentages on flavor… high, chemical taste… too high, mutes. All flavors have a “window” where they are best in percentages, going outside of this, things happends negative…

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Here’s a super easy recipe which sounded crazy (high percentages). It also uses DX flavors so no diketones. I had both flavors so tried it as-is and it was strong (good!), but I diluted it with a little extra VG… it wasn’t as good. I found myself mixing it with everything and it was a great add in my 1/2 empty dripper with lots of other finished juices. If you can taste Peanut Butter and Banana you might like this “Monkey Snack” by @tlc221981 …strong and tasty

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Making a mix for strong flavor usually requires really good flavor concentrates. I am unsure what your flavor stash is but if your interested in looking for heavy concentrates I’d look into FA,FLV, INW, MF these will all achieve a strong taste at a smaller ratio so if you have a preference in your juice ie. ( max vg vs 50/50 or 30/70 ) you’ll be able to get a really nice juice out of these concentrates without having to use them outside of their suggested ratio…but more on that you can push them outside of the suggested most are very very adjustable w/o compromising there profile however just how far is really the question. Hope you can find a recipe that works for you and then you can start to have a baseline of what you like in a juice ex. ( my overall pg usage target is always between 10-15% ) that works for me. Keep us posted.

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@BoDarc - I’ve added that to my list. I am looking forward to a strong non-citrus juice, and it sounds great.

@Amy2 - I will keep the brands in mind while I experiment. Thanks.

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26

I did not read the replies, only your original post. What came to mind for me was two thoughts. First… If you like sweetness, you could add (EM) Ethyl Maltol 10% PG Solution [ Recommended to use less than 1 percent <1%] by (TPA) The Perfumers Apprentice. It is a sweetener, and it is says that it reduces flavors over time, but I ADD IT TO MY TANK JUST BEFORE I’m going to vape that tank. I do not add it to mixes/recipes when I make them. It seems to give me a bunch more flavor.

My second thought was (and other mixers will agree)… If you use two or three different brands of a particular flavor in a recipe, it seems to give you a stronger flavor. For example, if you are making a peach custard recipe, use not only TPA Yellow Peach flavor concentrate, but also use a little White Peach by Flavor Art and a little Juicy Peach by Capella.

Another thought… I have found that If you double the amount of flavor concentrate, I can make your recipe tasteless. BUT -
I have found that I like Medicine Flower brand (all natural) flavorings because you can double flavoring without going over the mark and making the recipe tasteless. I think it’s like this… You know how cakes and manufactured foods often list “Real and Artificial Flavors” ? I think when you put both together it equals 4 times the flavor! That’s just my way of thinking about it. It may not be true at all. I’m not very experienced and besides… Taste is subjective (an opinion) and different for everyone. Although you do not have a common problem, it is very common for us vaporing flavor chasers to want more flavor - very common. I’m one of those who is always trying to figure out how to get more flavor… A flavor chaser. Just as mixing ejuice is important to getting enough flavor, the tank you have is half of it. I hope you have a good tank. God Bless you, and I hope your sinus issues heal.

Here’s a list of my additives:
A- Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG (nutty, baked bread) [1%] by TPA 15ml
A- Bitter Wizard [1%] by FA
A- Citric Acid
A- Magic Mask [%] by FA 60ml
A- Moonshine (contains sugar so gunks up coils)
A- Rainbow Drops [4%] by TPA 15ml
A- Salt Water - Saline [1%]
A- Smooth [1%] by TPA 15ml
A- Sour [%] by TPA 15ml
A- Sweet & Tart Candy [%] by TPA 15ml
A- Vape Wizard [%] by FA 15ml
A- Vodka (Viscosity, Flavor, Throat Hit)

4 Likes
27

I finally got some time on Sunday to mix up some juice. I made 6 different recipes, working my way up from a simple 2-flavor recipe up to a 5-flavor recipe. I made each one twice - once at the original recipe’;s strength and one at 1.25x the flavoring.

Thanks to my previous DIY experience, cooking habits, and a bunch of tips on this site, things went pretty well. I only forgot to hit tare twice - not too shabby for a newbie making 12 batches.

I did learn 2 valuable lessons:

  1. Leave some room for shaking. As has been suggested here, I measured my 15 ml bottles and found that they were 15.3 ml. Excellent. So I promptly made 15 ml batches - totally forgetting that the eyedropper takes up room and you want some air for shaking/mixing. I should have made 13 ml batches.

  2. I poured some VG from the 500 ml bottle into a 60 ml bottle with an eyedropper, since I could then use the eyedropper to accurately transfer VG into my 15 ml batch bottles. Well, transferring 12.97 ml of VG with a 0.7 ml eyedropper got very tiring after a while. I ordered a few 120 ml squeeze bottles for next time. Then I can use that to get about 12 ml into the batch bottle, and then use the eyedropper to finish up accurately.

Things seemed to go very well and smoothly. But I have to wait at least a few days for steeping and mixing before I start trying this stuff, so I have no idea how I really did.

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28

@Scottes777 - Well, I have your same problem, kinda annoying. My wife can taste great flavour from all the juices and I’m out…that’s sad! During the last month I tried to DIY but the recipes I tried taste too bland for me. Any news on your experiments? Have you find some recipe with good flavour? Please, help a fellow “flavourless” vaper :smile:

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I’ve found that I can taste most fruit flavorings quite well. Custards I can barely taste at all, which is a bitch because I love them. Damned near everything else - take that with a grain of salt - falls in between.

Flavoring Percentages
So after making about 60 recipes, I’ve found a few generalizations that I now go with:

  • Any fruit flavorings get no modification, and I use the exact percentage specified in the recipe
  • Any custard flavorings get modified to 150% of the percentage specified in the recipe
  • Any “creams” - Bavarian Cream, Ice Cream, Vanilla Swirl, and other such flavorings get modified to 125% of the percentage specified in the recipe.
  • Damned near everything else gets modified to 125% of the percentage specified in the recipe.

So given a fake recipe:

  • Some Fruit - 5%
  • Damned Near Everything Else - 8%
  • Anything Cream - 8%
  • Vanilla Custard - 10%

I would make this recipe using, respectively, 5%, 10%, 10% and 15%.

That is a general rule of thumb for me now. I always expect to tweak this once or twice, but by the 3rd batch I almost always have a tasty juice.

VG/PG Percentages
I used to make all recipes with 70% VG and 30% PG, but I now make all recipes at 55% VG, 45% PG.

I did a test and made a recipe, rather mild in flavor, and made 2 variations. One was 70/30 and the other was 55/45. I made another recipe, not so mild in flavor, and did the same thing.

I loaded them into 2 TFV4s takes with new coils, and put each tank on top of a Coolfire IV TC100.

In both cases, the 55/45 version were noticeably stronger in flavor. It wasn’t a blow-your-socks-off difference, but it was quite easy to pick out the 55/45 from the 70/30.

Steeping
Now for the bitch: Steep for a long time.
I won’t even taste-test all-fruit recipes for 3 weeks. For creams/swirls, 4 to 6 weeks. Custards I won’t even sniff for 6 weeks.

Reformulating
Okay, this is what I call it when I let something steep for some time and decide that something - or most things - are too weak. I’ll try to tweak the recipe mid-stream and re-adjust the flavoring percentages. I’ll add some more of the flavorings that I think it needs. It’s less expensive than throwing it out, so I’ll tweak it.

I call that “reformulating” for some reason, because adjusting the recipe and making another bottle would be called “adjusting the recipe and making another bottle” so I needed another term. :slight_smile:

Anyway, the important parts when adding more flavoring to an existing batch are:

  • Don’t do it too soon. Let it steep for a long time. I don’t do this until the 6-week mark.
  • It’s better to weigh everything involved. Tare an empty bottle, pour the juice in, tare, and add some extra flavorings. Keep notes so you can recreate the recipe.
  • Don’t expect to recreate this mess perfectly.
  • Let it steep AGAIN for a long time. The new flavorings have to steep again for the same time the original flavoring should have steeped.
  • It’s always - ALWAYS - better to let the original batch steep longer and just make a new batch with an adjusted recipe. This is also more expensive. Always.

Strong Flavorings
There some flavors I’ve come across that are quite strong on their own. There’s a recipe here called “Orange Bavarian Cream” and I had to cut the orange in half. LorAnn’s Banana is quite strong to me. Dark Bean is incredibly strong. “Smooth Morning Kick” uses it. I did that recipe at 125% of all ingredients except Dark bean, which I used at the specified strength.

The Right Tank / RDA
Finding a tank that provides great flavor was key for me. I tried a couple, went through some searches, and started a thread here. In my opinion, the Aromamizer Supreme provides the most flavor. I like it better than the Avocado or Griffin. I have yet to build my Boreas so that’s up in the air.

For an RDA, I have like 6 and have checked out some of my wife’s. I chose the Velocity V2 - but I have to admit that other things besides concerns over flavor went into that decision.

But I can’t get the Aromamizer to be 100% leak-free in all circumstances and that’s not acceptable to carry around all day. I can’t refill a Velocity at 80mph. So I’ve tried 5 or 6 different tanks-with-premade-coils and settled on the TFV4 using TF-Q4 (quad Clapton) coils to carry around. My rebuildable tanks and RDAs stay home - I know my TFV4s can reliably provide excellent flavor all day while remaining 100.00% leak-free. Those are my All Day Carry devices.

Last week I compared my TFV4 against my wife’s favorite tank, a Vaporesso Gemini (I think). It was night and day - the TFV4 blew away her tank for flavor.

Which tank is not the important part of this section. My opinions - and needs and desires - are different from anyone else’s. The key is to do some research and find the device(s) that provide you flavor and every other need and desire for a great vaping experience.

Make A Lot
My last bit of advice is to make a lot of recipes and be prepared to throw a lot of them away.

But don’t throw them away until they’ve steeped for 3 months.

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30

Looks like somebody just graduated :sunglasses: This is top-notch work @Scottes777 which really might help folks in a similar situation. Kudos! great contribution

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31

I missed this the first time around.

Here are some that I love:

Strawberry Fog: Check cookies
I did this at 125% for all flavorings and I love it.

Time Bomb - TNT Clone: Check cookies
Exactly as the recipe says

Smoothing Morning Kick: Check cookies
Dark Bean exactly as the recipe says, but the others at 125%

Dragon Cream Swirl: Check cookies
Dragonfruit & Ethyl Maltol exactly as the recipe says, Vanilla Swirl & Sweet Cream at 110%

I Suck At Naming Things…: Check cookies…+
Everything at 110%

BV Berry Swirl: Check cookies
Everything at 133%

3 Likes
32

I can’t thank you enough for the great advices you just gave me. As soon as I’ll close this post I’ll begin my work in search of good flavour! thank you!

33

Another point I forgot until last night when I tested another recipe…

Sometimes, most usually with fruits, adding extra flavoring can produce a juice that tastes a bit bitter. Extra flavorings in dessert flavors can make the resulting juice taste a bit dry. In such cases, a touch of sweetener can fix a recipe, or at least make it palatable so you don’t have to throw it away.

I prefer Stevia, particularly Pyure for fruits since people more knowledgeable than I have said that the citric acid added to Pyure can bring fruit flavors out. But other sweeteners, like TPA Sweetener or Capella Supper Sweet or even a Marshmallow, can do the trick.

So if you find a recipe too bitter or dry, try adding some sweetener. Add very little, since you can always add more but you can’t take it out if it gets too sweet.

The good thing about this is that adding some sweetener does not require more steeping. You do have to mix the hell of of the juice to spread out the sweetener, but it is immediately ready for vaping.

Again, when tweaking in this way, measure carefully and take notes so that you can add the correct amount to the next batch.

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34

One other tip on “reformulating” or “tweaking” a mix, as I like to call it. I measure exactly what I’m adding, then use a spreadsheet to recalculate the percentages based on what I’ve added. Of course, it ends up altering your PG/VG ratio, but the key takeaway for me is where the flavor percentages end up. Also, it’s not exact, as I’ve used a bit while tasting, but it’s informative.

I also keep a bottle of “diluter” on hand. It’s simply an unflavored liquid in my usual VG/PG/Nic ratio that I can use to reduce the overall flavor percentage of a mix if I think it might work better. If you like doing math (or Excel), you could even use it dilute everything and then only tweak up certain flavors back to the original percentages.

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35

That’s just a good all around idea

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36

I used this trick twice this past weekend.
I made a recipe and boosted the flavors to 125% like I tend to do. After 6 weeks of steeping, it was kinda tasteless and bitter - two sure signs that it had too much flavoring. So I made a bottle of diluter like you said, and added some to that recipe. I vaped, added some more diluter, vaped and finally added a little more. I kept notes and weighed each point. When I got the batch down to 105% of the original flavorings it tasted great.

Kudos!

2 Likes
37

The only thing i can say is:

Cinnamon Spice(TPA) << This is super strong even at 0.1% it can ruin a batch and i used it with 7 other flavours…

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I have a few bottles of diluted flavors so it’s easier to accurately measure. 0.1% of 30ml is not likely to be accurately measured - any scale would have a hard time measuring 0.03gm, and being off by 0.01 means being off by 50% for that flavor.

I’d take something like that and make a 3:1 mix, 3 parts PG to 1 part flavor. You could adjust or edit the recipe for this, but I don’t bother. When the recipe results tell you to add 0.03gm of that flavor, just multiple by 4 and add 0.12gm of the diluted stuff. You’ll be adding 0.09gm of extra PG, but that’s not going to be noticeable.

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That is great advice, i didnt even think to dilute the cinnamon down. Thanks!

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I have found that using Medicine Flower, I can add a flavor and then another brand and I get very strong flavor without the problems we experience when over-flavoring occurs. I used this analogy to describe it… You know how supermarket drinks or food will say ‘artificial and natural’ flavors. I think adding the two types makes for a very strong flavor more-so than each individually.

On the other hand, I also keep a bottle of ‘diluter’ on hand, and I use it up and refill it quite often. iIt is VG/PG/Nic without flavor. I also keep a bottle of ‘stevia’ sweetener and a bottle of 'flavor enhancer". In it, I put a combination of
Vape Wizard, Smooth, Sour, Sweetener and Vodka and water.

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