Nicotine Storage Bottles and Caps

I’m fortunate to have a small chest freezer in the basement, so freezer space isn’t a problem. I use these Harbor Freight plastic ammo boxes to store the nic in the freezer.

Each box holds eight 4 oz bottles, perfectly. The handle folds flat, they stack nicely, and have a rubber gasket in the lid. HF has coupons all the time for the boxes @ $2.99 ea.
I use them to store most of my vape stash. I grab them 5 at a time, when I see the $2.99 coupon. They work great.

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Been using the 6 pack Coleman type coolers myself.

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Searching using the descriptive terms used, it appears that the mystery caps (that come with these prospective clear glass 8 Ounce Wheaton bottles) are, in fact the same as the “F217” type (that @SessionDrummer found the statement warning about regarding the lack of a reliable air-seal):

Fisherbrand™ White Polypropylene PE Foam/PTFE Cap
Economical alternative to Thermoset and Phenolic PTFE lined caps. Fisherbrand™ White Polypropylene PE Foam/PTFE Caps have a PTFE facing, backed by F217 liners. Polypropylene (PP) caps with F217 & PTFE liners are an economical alternative to Thermoset & Phenolic PTFE lined caps. They have a PTFE facing, backed by F217 liners. The F217 liners consist of 3 plys: a low density foam core tightly sandwiched between two layers of polyethylene (LDPE). PTFE/F217 liners are very resilient and have strong resistance to chemicals and moisture and help keep bottle or jar contents free of odor and taste interference.

Will call Wheaton CS tomorrow to verify. If so, I guess that it’s back to the ambers and plastic cones (which one vendor of similar products stating that the cones are made of LDPE). Wish they made Teflon cones !

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Teflon jams!!! :slight_smile:

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I was pleasantly surprised to be able to get through (in the Wheaton Tech Support department) to a fellow who is knowledgeable and informative (imagine that !) about these two types of caps (the Phenolic with LDPE cone assembly, and the PTFE Teflon-lined caps - the “F217” designator associated with the original once patent-holding manufacturer).

Relative to the quality and durability of an air-seal:

First, the Phenolic with LDPE Cone assembly. He says that (most) of these items work pretty well - and that if they fail, it is generally something that occurs early-on when tightening. Good to know that any defects would (likely) show up early in the process of their use.

Second, the PTFE Teflon-lined items that I have been considering, and which we have been wondering about. He says that the Teflon layer is very thin (a few thousands of an inch). While the Teflon material (itself) may not adequately conform to “hills and valleys” that exist on the glass bottle neck top-surface (which are too small to see/ feel), the layer of plastic backing the Teflon cause the system to work well for making an air-seal. The potential problems with this type can arise if/when containers are transported and shipped. The combination of vibration/shocks and (if/when the container is horizontal) the contents contacting the inside of the cap assembly can (potentially) result in tiny breaches of the (otherwise reliable) air-seal. He was a bit surprised to hear about the Cary Company’s disclaimer (that @SessionDrummer found), stating that this technology did not make an air-seal. We casually surmised that they (Cary Company) are likely covering themselves for all possible usage cases - including transport with vibration/shocks, horizontal positioning of the container, etc.

We discussed the likelihood (or lack thereof) of potential chemical attack over time by the strongly basic Nicotine molecules in higher concentrations on both LDPE as well as Teflon (the latter being quite unlikely). Neither of us have specific testing information, and we casually surmised that it is (probably) the case that at the low temperatures of freezer storage, and when the solution is not often or for very long contacting the LDPE cone assembly, this is probably not a likely occurrence.

So, in the end, it appears that both options are relatively viable ones (if/when not transporting, or removing and then re-torquing the cap onto the bottle a lot, anyway). It would indeed be very nice not to have to worry about any potential air-seal breaches in various (non-ideal, but possible) scenarios.

Largely due to the “Bezos Free Shipping Effect”, the Amber 8 Ounce bottles with Phenolic, LDPE Cone Assembly caps (at 12-piece prices) would be nearly $7 USD less expensive that the Wheaton Clear Glass 8 Ounce bottles with PTFE-lined caps.

As well, the “Fulfilled by Amazon” GlassBottleOutlet items (might, possibly) be easier to get extra Phenolic with LDPE Cones (for free) - should any of them prove to be defective. So, that’s the “long and short of it”.

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@Raven-Knightly I appreciate the amount of time, and follow through you spent, and provided on this. As posted in VapeMail, I just received my GBO 500ml amber bottles and I tested all the caps, all were snug, didn’t crack, etc. I’ll have to check some of my other bottles, as these seem to have a fairly stiff cone. I could have sworn my others were clear-er, squishier cones, but can’t confirm yet. I do appreciate all the extra effort.

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Certainly, my friend. We both (as well as other readers) have a vested interest in getting these things right (for the long haul of the likely coming “Nicotine Winter” here within the Dark Ages of Regulatory Idiocy).

There appear to be some differences between Phenolic with LDPE Cones out there. One reviewer had purchased some of that type of cap separately (via Amazon) out of the same kind of reliability concerns, and remarked about that (and posted an image showing differences). Seems like subtleties never end !.. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hehe, I love the word choice !!!

Agreed, maddening to say the least, at least for discerning customers.

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I wonder if (possibly) the more opaque cones that you just received (might) be made from HDPE (higher density) as opposed to LDPE (lower density used in thin containers, bags, etc) ? That (if so) would likely be good news with regards to resistance to “chemical attack” - as long as the air-seals are not thus degraded.

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Yes these def. appear to be HDPE. I’m not sure which of the two concerns is my major one, but I think sealing over chemical attack. All of mine sit upright in the freezer, so any contact will be minimal. However, during the ““Nicotine Winter” here in the Dark Ages of Regulatory Idiocy” I’m thinking any sealing issues/penetration would be a much larger concern, especially depending on the length OF said winter.

Still trying to locate an extra “squishy” cap.

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I don’t know how easy to tell (between LDPE and HDPE) it may be. For instance, LNW states that all of their Nicotine ships in HDPE containers - but my 240 mL size containers look very close to “transparent” when eyeballed. On the other hand, LNW 1 Liter (PG and VG, don’t know about their Nicotine) containers are much thicker and much more “opaque”. I have (only) presumed them to be HDPE (based on “opaqueness”).

Remember, the density (of the Polyethylene plastic) does not (it seems) necessarily imply that it cannot “grab and cover” those (micro-level) “hills and valleys” that exist on the glass surface. I don’t know for sure about that, though. Any specific indications to that effect ? We would (hope) that “GBO” has tested them ?

My concern is that “chemical attack” of the PE structure (might, possibly) cause a loss of the air-seal. :thinking:

PS - I just transmitted an inquiry on the “GlassBottleOutlet” web-site. Will inform if they produce an answer.

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@SessionDrummer, have a look at the default images (on Amazon web-pages) of GBO’s (independently sold, spare) Phenolic Caps with PE Cone. The 28/400 (that ships with their 8 and 16 Ounce Bostons):

… has a more “opaque” (less translucent) appearance (that we are guessing may be HDPE) - whereas their 20/400 (that fits the 1 and 2 Ounce Bostons) look (perhaps) more like LDPE ? Dunno. Will research.

I don’t know why, but the GBO web-site does not offer that smaller 20-400 Cap size at all (thus, no image).

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I will be asking their CS department tomorrow what they may know about the types of PE used. I am not anticipating the kind of informative experience that I had yesterday with Wheaton TS, though. I plan to use around 1/2 of my dozen bottles to store my NET extracts in my refrigerator (and thus the caps will need to be opened/closed a significant number of times more than the Nicotine containers in my freezer) - so rather than chase them around for free replacements down the line, I may just pop for a 24-pack of spare Caps.

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UPDATE:

Have been researching the “polycone” caps, and it appears (from finding data listed by several different manufacturers) that the “cones” are made with LDPE (as opposed to HDPE). Thicker may indeed be better.

I can’t get “GlassBottleOutlet” to answer their toll-free telephone number (1-888-395-6551) to save my life, and they have yet to answer my “LDPE or HDPE” cones question (via email). Will report if they do respond.

Too many critical reviews from folks who have had these kind of caps fail (generally, the phenolic - which is a fairly brittle material - cracking seems to be most common). Additionally, repeated openings and closings (when applicable), as well as (possible) degradation from Nicotine exposure might (possibly) be a bit hard on the PE cones. Don’t want to do “hit or miss” caps. Half of these bottles will be frequently opened and closed.

Anyway, for just a few bucks more, I decided to order Wheaton 8 Ounce Boston Rounds with Polypropylene (the most durable of the various plastics) caps with Teflon (PTFE, aka F217) linings. I snagged the last set of 12 that Amazon was (themselves) shipping and selling ($25.55 with free shipping). Amazon stated that more will be stocked. (In case of problems), likely easier to confront Amazon rather than 3rd-party vendors.


Source: https://www.zoro.com/static/cms/product/large/Z1uOq_ocpEx_.JPG

Also found spare (24-400 type) caps that will fit (if replacements become necessary). 12 pieces for $10:

Will report any problems (with effectiveness of the seals made), should they arise in testing. Onwards ! :clown_face:

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For folks who might possibly want to convert to this type of Teflon-lined cap (for standard 28-400 bottles):

(12 pieces for $10 USD):

https://www.amazon.com/Consolidated-Plastics-41086-Polypropylene-28-400/dp/B071YVX6VV

(100 pieces for $23.04 USD):

https://www.amazon.com/JG-Finneran-D0400-24-Polypropylene-24-400mm/dp/B00E35YIEC

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Are you guys sanitizing the bottles with boiled water before utilization? I am going to re-bottle 1.5 liters of nicotine this afternoon, I have previously been just rinsing under hottest tap water air-drying and then rinsing again with distilled water and drying a second time before bottling. This time I am using 16 ounce glass instead of 4 ounce bottles (utilized for the past couple years), these are going to be the last in last out so I want to make sure they are in pristine shape. I guess I will do the hot water/distilled water rinse on the caps as I don’t think subjecting them to boiled water temperatures is a good idea. Also, I am using coned caps and water has a tendency to get in between the cone and plastic (you can wedge the cone out to try it separate from the cap housing to keep water out of the bottle).

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I have had conversations with GBO in the past (albeit a couple years ago) about their “natural” plastic bottles. I wanted to see if they were HDPE or LDPE and whoever I spoke with was pretty much clueless about the difference. At the time I had them read me the triangle code on the bottle so I could find out. I prefer LDPE for shorter term storage of my e-liquids (at least I did at the time), now I don’t care all that much if they are LDPE/HDPE/ or PET. (for mixed e-liquid that is).

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@HVPGH I don’t put too much effort into it, wash all with hot water, and dry. Fill, top with gas, seal, and tape the lids, and label.

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@SessionDrummer, here is an example of a manufacturer calling out LDPE Polycone construction:

Wheaton Phenolic PE Cone Liner Cap by DWK Life Sciences

Caps: Phenolic Screw-On Cap with PE Cone Liner, Black, Cap Closure Size 28-400

  • Phenolic PE Cone Liner Cap

  • Black phenolic screw cap

  • Poly-Seal liner is manufactured from low density polyethylene

  • Unique cone liner design offers superior torque retention and excellent sealing characteristics

  • It is recommended that liner be tested prior to use for leak resistant applications

  • Product must be used in compliance with the intended use statement listed on the product or its accompanying product information.


Source: https://www.medline.com/media/catalog/sku/wts/WTS240119_PRI02.JPG

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Recommended Application Torque, Minimum Removal Torque (see left-most column), seal testing criterion:


Source: Wheaton Catalog, 2014, Page 7

Wheaton recommends that notably higher Application and Minimum Removal Torques be applied to my (upcoming) 24-400 Polypropylene caps with Teflon liners (Column 3, left-to-right) than they recommend be applied to the 28-400 Phenolic caps with Polycone cones (Column 1), in order to form a seal. The good news is that Polypropylene will not shatter like Phenolic can when being cranked on/off particularly forcefully.

Note: I see that the graphic above incorrectly identifies units of Torque (which are actually Inches x Pounds)

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Received Wheaton 8 Ounce Amber Glass bottles with PTFE Teflon-lined caps today. Looking good !


Source: https://www.zoro.com/static/cms/product/large/Z1uOq_ocpEx_.JPG

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I’ve got too many sticks in the fire at this point, so I’m trying to catch back up on ALL of them. This one, is still near and dear to my heart, in prep for the “Nicotine Winter” !!! :slight_smile:

Regardless of the chemical attacks, does the liner feel thick enough to seal up good ?

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