I don’t get the part about moving away from RF, though. In the recipes I have that use them, the ones that have gone past 1 month steeping have been great! But, i don’t mix with Just RF, and not many people do. Like most mixers, I mix and match brands for different aspects particular flavors impart. RF, MF, NF and a few other random PG-free flavors from different brands can combine very nicely and overcome any one brand’s deficiencies. I do add 15% PG to mine, but have made tests of many of them without it and they are great with just a little extra steeping.
Here is an example of a brand combination that is rich and full of flavor. I’m vaping it right now on only day 2 of steeping and it is fantastic. It is also one that holds nicely after a month of steeping:
Here’s another example of combining brands:
These both translate well to PG-free by omitting the PG from the recipes.
You will find lots of opposing opinions on RFSC. Some love, some hate, some meh. I’m sure it’s the same with other brands and certain flavors from particular brands. It’s something you have to find out for yourself. If you find some you hate, there are probably others who would trade flavors or mixes for them.
Hey I remember you posting about this before, Really sorry to hear that you’re having such problems getting your mix right I guess it’s very much like starting mixing all over again from scratch,
Being a fan of Medicine Flower, myself, I pretty much agree with @netweight, but with a couple of caveats:
Most of the MF flavours need a really long steep (like, a month minimum) I shouldn’t think you’re up for that right now
you’re in Germany, I think? In that case, if you’re gonna try MF, you’ll be better off buying the Botanic Elixir (MF dilutions) from Vapour Depot in the UK. Postage will likely be cheaper and investment in concentrates much smaller .
But for now, you might be better off trying out Flavour Hub’s own brand VG-based concentrates , They’ve got hundreds to choose from, and the great thing about them is they’re ready to vape within a week- yes, even in 100VG mixes. The downside is they’re very dilute, and you’ll definitely need to use at the recommended % (15-20% ) in most cases, but hey! this is as near to instant gratification as you’re likely to get. and i guess you can use some instant gratification ATM!
I used to really ove their lemonade but they seem to have messed with the recipe, so I now mix it with- guess what? - RF lemonade!
Oh! BTW, do be guided by the % given in the flavour tasting notes here on the forum and on the recipe side of the site. I’ve found that oft-given advice to increase the % if you’re mixing 100VG to be very misleading. Makes no difference to %, in my experience, it only makes a difference to steep time. , like others have pointed out, over-flavouring with most of these flavours leads to a loss flavour, not the expected increase in flavour! Annoyingly , if you want maximum flavour, you have to hit the % just right, no way round that.
@anon478949 I can tell you I did EXTENSIVE testing on a wide array of RF SC’s all done @ 2.5%. All were mixed @ 70v/30p @ 3mg NIC. Now, realizing I do not have a PG allergy, this may NOT be an apples to apples comparison, but I found them to be really good at that strength. ALL testing was done on the same Steam Crave v. 1 3ml tank with kanthal coils ohming about .30 ohms, and any where from 30-45w. We all know that VG is NOT the best flavor carrier, but I don’t know how much of a difference my 30% PG would make compared to your max VG.
oh! another thing: I’m MTL myself, and I find the Aspire Nautilus X tank works really well with most of my VG juices (though it burns a few of the flavours) It’s not the tank so much as the unique design of the coils, I guess. I most often use the 1.8 ohm coil at around 12-14W, but I sometimes stick in one of their lower-resistance coils (0.6 or 1,2 ohm) marketed for the PockEx AIO for a change. . They fits nicely, never mind what the makers say.
In any case, those coils get really hot! They gunge up after a few days , but then I soak them in vodka. They usually last me weeks…if I manage to avoid dry hits, And they are really reliable, So they don’t work out as pricey as you might think.
If you want to try that set -up, I think you’ll definitely need to lower the DW % a bit, or else it will spit like the blazes. Oh! also under-fill the tank. a bit, because you just don’t get a very good draw on it if the little windows at the side of the coil are completely submerged.
No idea. Think most use a pg/vg blend and don’t notice the flavor drop? Other than the RF vanilla custard, I don’t use RF anymore but don’t want to give it away either
I mean its awesome that people recommend gear and percentage, but and that’s no offense, he shouldn’t have to get different mods/atties/DL/mtl setups/changes just to taste a flavor?
I don’t use RF so I can’t say nothing about that, but yes in general and in my humbled opinion, even the slightest amount of pg is different than full VG juices.
Now since he can’t or doesn’t want pg, max VG juices, again in my opinion do need higher percentages. Not sure about rf tho, and they do steep forever.
Now I’m already not a fan of snv because it doesn’t work for me, great if it does for others, but I couldn’t imaging max VG too be snv. I’m probably wrong as usual, but max VG with VG nic and VG flavors, I wouldn’t doubt a 1-3 month steep as others mentioned.
Good luck man, hope you can get it too work somehow.
true, but if you’re switching from vaping PG-based juices to 100VG (as he has) then you might need to change your kit,
Personally, I avoid making hardware recommends , cos hundreds of otheras round here are much better qualified. But then, as one of the very few PG-free MTL vapers round here, I figured it would be mean of me not to mention what works for me, in terms of kit !
In ordinary situations, I’d say that’s good advice. Unfortunately, in this case, and with the OP’s particular problems (having already stated that they’ve tried extremely high values of DW [>5%], and also having issues with over 3% PG…), I am of the opinion that no less than the raw (pure) MF extracts (undiluted) have a chance of working.
Simply because, as you just noted Botanic Elixirs is diluted. In what? And how much? I don’t know. But to maximize the chances of success, it seems to me (like woftam, netweight, and others have implied)… He/she needs the most potent flavors that he/she can lay hands on.
@anon478949
To my bit of experience, the two lead horses out of the gate are MF (price be damned, this is the ideal reason where necessity dictates a try for purely physical reasons IMO), and FLV.
Nice secondary considerations (again, IMO) would be Inawera (almost always under 3% required) and NF (again, already mentioned). Another potential brand that I’ve had only limited experience with, but is so far leaning towards really low percentages, is Hangsen.
Being an MTL user, and still experiencing PG issues royally SUCKS. I feel for you.
More importantly, I hope that you continue to persevere, at least long enough to get past the point of tobacco dependency. As that’s the main concern!
I hope that you are able to find your niche.
We’re rooting for you!
Quite a few of us have. And those thoughts have been repeatedly posted in varying threads.
It’s just not leaderboard (subject/headline) worthy for most.
There’s also quite a few folks who actually enjoy them. /shrugs
Just another of the prime candidates for YMMV.
10% dilution in VG. Sorry, I should prolly have linked to my thread about 'em but was feeling lazy.
A few people have found them less potent, but usually if you just multiply the usual pure MF % by ten, they work just fine, in my experience, Just don’t go for those rare flavours that need about 2% pure MF (Green Apple!)
I’m thinking the guy surely isn’t gonna be in the mood to invest in excess of £20 per flavour for the pure stuff. (much though I wish people would! ) .
I get that (again, from a “normal” standpoint), but this is a rare exception where physical needs outweigh price issues.
Even when considering the initial outlay, he/she will still be coming in far cheaper (per unit) than what they’d spend on smoking/tobacco. But, more importantly, they’d be potentially meeting the physical needs/requirements, which is the sole/primary goal as I understand it.
Oh! absolutely! but will he have the faith to try it, at that cost, after so much disappointment with RF? plus the patience to wait for it to steep? (though, frankly the BE dilutions don’t cut down on steep times , so no advantage there)
Well, only maxvapee can answer that, but At least we’ve managed to suggest a range of options between us , which I daresay is better than just one option.
Anyways, the reason why I’m throwing in yet another repkly, is that it just srtuck me he can vape unflavoured juice for a while, until he finds something that works… though he’s prolly thought of that for himself, and is prolly resorting to that already.
Anyway, I’ve done that myself at times, and found it surprisingly pleasant, if a little bit boring. It’s much better than weakly flavoured juice at any rate. That’s just too tantalising.
It would be nice if that was true, we could all just buy the FLAVOR setup, or the CLOUD setup. I’ve done countless comparisons to my Steam Craves, and most fall short. I’ve tried highly rated setups, and most just don’t taste as good as my SC’s, but that’s me. I don’t think my lowly, old, Steam Crave v.1 is a state of the art, cutting edge unit at all, but damn, it just tastes good, so that’s what I personally choose for all my critical testing. I use other SC’s for my daily drivers, basically taste the same, with air flow and juice flow, with bigger tanks.
You shouldn’t have to buy ONE setup just to taste a flavor, but if flavor’s what you’re after, then choosing things that excel at flavor is never a bad idea. I remember when my (older) OBS Engine came out, many raved about it, I got one, set it up exactly the same as my SC v.1 and did a side by side, and it was NO comparison. Everyone tastes different. If he DOES have a setup that tastes good to him, and he still can’t find a sweet spot for the RF SC’s, then maybe they’re not for him. My .02.
I agree with you, and this was exactly why I asked above. His setup seems to work fine, but apparently to be able to taste RF , you need a different setup, which was strange for me lol. Must be magical
I’m thinking of my own setups as I run two different. I have a high NIC, high PG MTL that I run sometimes, vs. my low NIC, high VG regular setup DL. The flavor I get in my MTL pales in comparison to the DL sub ohm setup. I only use the MTL as a leak proof, small carry around piece so I deal with the lacking flavor for the convenience. I wonder it he’s having the same experience. I realize there are better MTL’s for flavor, but just thinking. I’ve never vaped any complex, creamy/bakery flavors in my MTL setup, mostly fruits.
Haven’t read the thread, yet, but I am in the same position as you. I have used up to 5% RF SC Pineapple before I was satisfied. IDK if it is an American palate thing or what as I have not smoked for 3+ years.
For reference, I generally vape hot at 5.5 volts on claptons, kanthal or stainless steel with a resistance of 0.4 to 0.5.
I’m another one guilty of not saying anything about RFSC because I didn’t really want to say anything negative really, so I just kept quiet, but also was disappointed with their flavors.
I will admit I bought into the hype, and I certainly can appreciate Walt being here on these forums so I don’t want to talk negative about him or his company. Thats what I loved about them, so when he had a 3 bottle giveaway a long time ago I placed an order for several flavors along with the freebies. I really wanted to support him.
Unfortunately, shipping took forever, he forgot my dropper tops, so I had to order them, but I still wanted to love the flavors. That’s the whole point! lol
As soon as I got the flavors I did a SNV at the recommended % and nothing, no flavor. So I let it steep a few weeks, and a little better but not much flavor there either. I thought the %'s are misleading, so I did a second round of tests at double the % on the bottle. I let it steep for exactly 4 weeks without touching it and I got the intended flavor, but even then it was just…meh at best.
I plan on mixing w some of them in the near future, but I won’t be a repeat customer
I remember you posting about this before, Really sorry to hear that you’re having such problems getting your mix right 
I guess it’s very much like starting mixing all over again from scratch,
, so no advantage there)