I’m going to try to steep in sous vide using the e liquid in a vacuum ziplock, i just need to take the vacuum machine with my friend
I think the recipient and amount of e-liquid in may rather interfere in the time and quality of steeping. I felt differences using glass jars and plastic jars. The glass gave slightly better results, perhaps because after removing the hot water, the glass still keeps the liquid warm for a few minutes
Can you send a photo of the equipment used? I will invest in more equipment to do more tests
Here’s the homogenizer and probe I got:
I watched Amazon and one of the probes went on sale for like $300. I purchased the motor on Ebay for $250 used in good shape, obviously from a lab as it had no plug only terminals.
For larger batches you might want to look at larger diameter probes.
I’m not sure about that… But I will say, with respect to using an ultrasonic, glass makes all the difference for a couple of reasons.
- Because the waves travel through the glass as though the glass is not there. (in plastic, the plastic acts as an absorbing device which lessens the effect of the waves in homogenizing the flavor into the VG)
- Leeching is far more likely to occur in plastic, especially with heat added into the equation. So IMO, it’s not worth it. No matter how “good” the plastic.
Ok, just tried a mix with Bavarian cream, sweet cream, two strawberries, and a little sweetener. Tossed it in the Souse Vide overnight, approx. 8 hrs. Cream flavoring is accentuated, full bodied, and well defined. The strawberry was less effected and is diminished in the balance. Mix is clear with no discoloration. This mix is always tinted after a month of sitting. I’m reticent in comparing this to something “steeped” as this is not a side by side comparison. At this juncture I am going to leave at the results of this method only. Regardless, it’s a very pleasant vape. I’m going to vape it for awhile before I decide if I want to change ratio. I might just like this mix better.
Our perception that the always-ongoing color deepening over time is steeping may be a myth. While it’s easy to understand how the molecular Rate Reaction in an old school shake-closet bottle of ejuice just happens with enough time, the fact it also changes color over that same time may be misleading.
The Mag mixing, homogenization and controlled application of low heat are all factors in increasing chemical Rate reactions …it’s starting to look like two different things perhaps …the actual steeping (solely chemical flavor reactions and bonding to the PG/VG) and the oxidation on top (nicotine?) which affects many juice’s color over time (Maillard reaction?)
We have been barking up the wrong tree if these two are not one and the same. Shit just got real.
I think it is just oxidation as a Maillard reaction requires the presence of sugars (if you are using FW Yellow Cake then it probably is a Maillard reaction )
Yeah we have already talked about this, but thanks, good lookin’ out. Oxidation is a word I used, but oxidation doesn’t necessarily turn things brown. Maillard reactions happen almost exclusively with high heat and food, and I am using it as description of how many ejuices seem to “cook” over time until many even turn brown. It’s a comparison of appearance not molecular fusing of base sugars and amino acids.
The more important thing to consider is that while unassisted steeping and color changes happen at the same time …what if they’re unrelated? …and what if this thread spurs that discovery? Thanks again
Welcome to the realm of more questions than answers. I really can’t opine. I have tangential access to some labs at U of M per a close friend in the nuclear physics department. I’ll run this whole thing by him. No promises. He’s a prof entering the retirement stage of his career and I won’t press him. If he takes an interest and offers to look at it then fine. Beyond that I’m quite satisfied with more immediate criteria, that being does it vape better.
I am accepting your anecdotal stories with great interest. It would be groundbreaking to have some Science for our little DIY world …science I am sure is already available to the Commercial world. “Steeping” may be one of our biggest topics in this place and discussions for YEARS have been mostly unscientific amd purely anecdotal.
To clarify my understanding, you have made NO scientific truth claims and instead just relayed your experience and were always clear about that. If what we visualize as aging (color shift/oxidation) is not necessarily tied to the chemical flavor maturation of DIY ejuice recipes (agreed definition of “steeping”) or the accepted Truth that only time=steeping, I dunno… Minds Blown?
This may be just a well kept secret, so I don’t believe we are turning Lead into Gold here …but we might just be digging up a little. My hats off to the OP for birthing the interest here and you sir (@SmilingOgre) for your imaginative applications. Maybe the reason we couldn’t get solid answers on the Steeping question was… “barking up the wrong tree”. Even if it turns out badly from a research standpoint, you (both) shifted our attention in a new direction. Hey look! There’s more than one tree [insert excitement here]
The thing for me is, I don’t know scientifically what role oxidation plays in the flavor maturation process. It happens regardless, as evidenced by nicotine darkening over time (even in its’ own bottle unmixed with concentrates). But is it a totally independent happenstance, or does it affect flavor? “I don’t know”.
Nothing new here of course, but I’ve heard time and again that it simply takes time for the chemical process to occur that mature the flavors of the juices. I’ve yet to see a real substitute. Naturally I’d like to!
And maybe there’s actually a couple processes that have to happen/ Maybe the juices need to homogenize first, then the chemical interactions can occur. Sort of like adding alcohol to tomato sauce unlocks compounds that are otherwise lost? So, the homogenizer and Sous Vide speeds up the first ‘half’, so the steeping can commence sooner?
Me too on a scale for 30ml bottles. How great would that be if you could get a true 4 week steep in 10mins.
Indiana Jones is still looking for it.
It’s great to read that you have adopted the perspective you have. Well stated and I believe our thoughts are closely aligned.
This, I’m confident is true. In the vernacular, there’s a lot of shit going on here all at once. Simple convenient answers can be useful at the macro level but I always find it fascinating to play around a little and uncover some detail here and there. Hopefully there is more to come. That would be fun.
I think most of us would hold this train of thought- the hope is that a method is discovered through this R&D that greatly reduces ‘steeping time’ and can result in a fully ‘aged’ flavor in hours or minutes vs. weeks or months.
The fear I have is that this method will be expensive and the cost will outweigh the benefit. Seems there’s always a bug on the windshield somewhere.
No doubt. In this case most everything used is pretty much “household” for someone into vaping with the exception of the homogenizer. A Souse Vide heater can be picked up for about $100 and is useful for a lot more than just heating juice. I’ve prepared many folks with it and the results were marvelous.
First off, the ogre part of that is hilarious, as always.
But since I have to play devil’s advocate, my USC is useful for a lot more than just cleaning atty’s, but that’s all I use it for. If I needed a homogenizer or sous vide, I would already have one, if you get what I mean.
Not that it’s a bad purchase. But by ‘expensive’ I also mean in terms of labor. I need something that literally beats old fashioned steeping -and- doesn’t take all day and 100 steps to achieve. I applaud your efforts and hope you make a true breakthrough, I promise! But except for test recipes it will be very hard to convince me I need to speed the process. Once you get a good amount of stock on the shelf, you can easily afford to wait a month or so for the next bottle of juice. So to that end, if I need to spend more than a few hours to achieve the speed-steeping, it probably won’t happen.
Please don’t take this in any negative way. I love this thread and others like it, and am following with great interest.
I don’t take it as negative at all. I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. I just share what I experience. Like vaping I consider this a program of attraction not promotion. Feel free to take anything from the table you like and leave the rest. I had the Souse Vide already as I cook a lot of food in it. As you noted, my USC is multi purpose as well. Regarding the number of steps, for me this is not an encumbrance. I’m in the doghouse learning new songs for the next show or mixing music or making videos etc. anyway. 90% of the process is just letting things work on their own. I would done have none of this pre-retirement. This is just fun for me.
now for the Cons After looking at the price tags for commercial homogenizers (a coupla Gs!) it’d be nice to come up with some way to hard-core blend at Home DIY-style .Heh, “Homogenizing for the Unfamiliar”? I have a Dremel with a flex shaft