Was reading through it Darth. I have been humbled. I don’t even have to taste your food to know you are an amazing chef. You ever been on Chopped? I love that show!
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Well thank you LordVapor I appreciate the compliment a lot! It’s the only thing in life I know how to do!! Haha thankfully people have to eat because I would be screwed 
I haven’t been on chopped, no. During the JBA time I had been asked by The food network to do somethings and my wife keeps telling me I should do one of those shows…based upon the miracles I pull off when there’s nothing in the house but a can of tomatoes, cinnamon and a carrot hehe
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A lot of the people that win are on the show because someone told them to do it. If I were that good I think it would be a blast. But very challenging.
So what are your thoughts on flavors marrying together while steeping? I think we need a chemist to chime in lol.
The one and only regret, if any, would be that I didn’t take a class on Molecular Gastronomy… It always interested me and in a way that’s how I feel about DIY with all the flavors, etc… to me it is a form of MG and equally as fun!
I went from a casual mixer that had a handful of flavors plus a few vendor juices to a full blown f’ing lab with 100s of flavors, juices, tanks, mods, etc over night!
I don’t have time right now to get in to it but I am still learning as I go on what certain flavors/companies do over a long period of time. When I say long period of time, I am speaking months or a year+! I am now at that point where I am going back and tasting blends that are almost a year old and what time has done to them and taking notes!
It is pretty amazing what time does and how certain flavors pull back, while others come out! Especially floras…
I’m also finding there are flavors that enhance a juice without actually producing the flavor they are. In a quick example, Fa Fuji and Pear are 2 great flavors, that if used at .2-1% will add body/juiciness to a mix without giving you an apple/pear flavor and so on…
It is addicting and a lot of fun!! Even though I have 30+ years as a chef doesn’t mean that making juices are easy! Sure I can easily pair flavors and that but this is a whole different ball game with %s and different vendor flavors. I am still learning my flavors and with 300+ flavors and a window of 12 months to see what they do, it is a long…but fun process!
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When I first started DIY I just jumped in head first. Made a lot of really crap mixes until I did some research. At one point I was like I’m only gonna ever make shake and vape juices then in time I found that some of my S&V’s would be so much better after a week or two. Once I had made a lemon cookie that was just not good at first. I threw it in a drawer and found it again a couple months later. I hadn’t labeled it and forgot what it was. When I tried it again it was like holy cow, where was this when I mixed it?
Point is, aging is a crucial part of DIY in so many cases. After my lemon cookie incident I started researching and although I can’t remember where I read it, I did read kind of a guideline once and I’ve sorta stuck with it.
Candy and Fruit needs the least amount of steep time. Anywhere from overnight to 3 days.
Custards, creams and bakery 1-2 weeks
Tobaccos, coffees and some others (but especially tobacco) anywhere from a month to two months.
So if you make a primarily candy or fruit mix, your expected steep time needed will be short…a few days. But if you add creams/bakery/tobacco, those flavors’ needed steep time should be what you go by to get a true steep and development of the flavor.
Right now, although I do somewhat go by this rule, I often vape my liquids before they’ve fully steeped because I do a lot of the same flavors and know what to expect in terms of how something tastes after 4-5 days to how it will taste in 2 weeks.
I couldn’t agree more. I use some apple and pear this way too. Another I find especially good for this is TPA Dragonfruit. You can add a goodly amount of it before it starts to make a mix taste like dragon fruit, although I would say when experimenting to start off at 2% and work your way up. I’ve made some great mixes with as much as 5-6% TPA Dragonfruit and not really noticed it’s taste as much as how it adds some depth to a mix. I’ve only ever had TPA and CAP dragon fruit so I don’t know about other vendors, but the Capella version is quite pungent and I don’t use it this way. It’s in a class by itself.
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I bought a Strawberry Cheesecake from a vape shop in Indy after getting used to my local vape shops flavors. The Strawberry Cheesecake had almost no flavor. So into the cupboad it went. A month later I tried it again. Still no flavor. The cheesecake was slightly there. But definitely no strawberry. So I added some FA Strawberry to it. I put it away and never thought about it again for another month. I just put it in my Crown tank this morning and damn it’s good. The cheesecake is even coming through a lot more now. Maybe they didn’t steep it at all. It has turned a dark golden color. I am actually going to be bummed when it’s gone.
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I want to kind of revive this discussion for a moment. After giving it some thought, I think @LordVapor had a good question and there’s a good case for the database including Recommended Steep Time as part of flavor reviewing. Take just one flavor for example (this could work with most anything) … CAP VC v1. Anyone who has used this flavor understands that it changes fairly dramatically from the time of mix up through about 1 month after mixing. It will strengthen, smooth out, gain creaminess, and has a very unique and enjoyable quality once it’s reached about the third week. Of course we also know the amount to which this is noticeable also depends on what else it’s mixed with and the quantity used. But, can you agree that as a rule of thumb it matures at the 3 week mark?
Let’s look at another flavor…TPA Strawberry (Ripe). I don’t find that it changes much at all after mixing. In fact (depending on what it’s mixed with) I find it a shake-n-vape worthy flavoring.
In my view there is a difference between the results of aging that are desirable for marrying flavors and the need to steep due to the properties of the individual flavors in a mix. And that’s where I feel having a grading system in the flavor reviews would be helpful. Just as an example, if there was a place in the flavor stash for users to choose recommended steep time for flavors, say something like: zero, 3 days, 7 days, 10 days, 14 days, 21 days 30 days - that data could be delivered much the same as the quantitative data derived from the recipes where it shows minimum, maximum and median, only it could show steep time instead, perhaps an average. So if I never used CAP VC v1 I could look up the flavor and see it has a 3 week recommended steep time.
I feel if this were a feature available it would be used tremendously and people would get better results from their experiments.
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In my original questions here, that was what I was getting at. I guess I didn’t explain it as eloquently as you did. I understood that flavors needed time to marry together, and depending on the flavors used this time would surely vary.
But now with more experience under my belt. Wait, I think I’m wearing a belt. I can’t see it? Hmm. Anyway, I now know with certain flavors, when I use them in a mix, it is going to need to steep according to the flavor in the recipe requiring the longest steep time. This was what I was asking in my first post here.
And now that I have gotten to know a lot of you, I realize this is all a bit of trial and error for everyone here. Even for the pros. Because this just hasn’t been around long enough for anyone here to have all the answers. But all of you know enough about certain flavors that you instinctively allow a certain amount of time based on the flavors used, regardless of the recipe.
That was the info I was wanting when I started this. I think if we all put our heads together, a really good database can be established for individual flavors with recommended single flavor steep time. So that way someone new like I was can take the longest required steep time and have a better guess as to how long a recipe is going to need to steep before we mix.
My purpose for asking was I had no vapable juice. Everything I was making was needing to steep. And not knowing that, I was making juice that I was unsure if it was good, or if I just didn’t know what I was doing, or if a steep was going to make it better. So knowing what to expect before mixing would have come in really handy at the time, and I could have made better informed decisions when putting recipes together.
Now ya made me write another book lol.
Oh hey! there’s my belt.
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An option under our flavor stash?..
Pretty good idea - How about a field under each flavor in the stash, “Typical steeping time” - Also a field for steeping time in the recipe? 
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Now we are getting somewhere!!!
While we’re at it, any chance we can also add a “Mixed on/Made on” date field? 
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Hear you, I always try to add that as my first comment but when I forget to sometimes I don’t have a clue afterwards haha
That will be part of the batch control thing
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@SthrnMixer [quote=“SthrnMixer, post:15, topic:32964”]
So if you make a primarily candy or fruit mix, your expected steep time needed will be short…a few days. But if you add creams/bakery/tobacco, those flavors’ needed steep time should be what you go by to get a true steep and development of the flavor.
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I realize this is a very old post but I wanted to know about how long do you think the nut flavors would need to steep? I’m currently working on a recipe that is “nut heavy” and can’t seem to get it quite right. I was wondering if it may just need a longer steep time.
Well I’m not all that experienced with nut flavors. The few I have used though don’t seem to take a ton of time to steep out. What I’ve found though is most nuts can be kind of harsh upon first mix. They then will smooth and mellow over the coming days. One of the better examples of this is Flavorah Peanut Butter.
I’m sure there are folks here that have good experience with nut mixes who could help better than I.
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@Saxon2
Here is the BAN thread and it’s all about the NUTS !!
I think steeping time is covered down in the comments someplace but I blaze through so many threads it’s hard to remember just where I got what snippet of info.
My adapted version of Nut Buster V2 (same idea) hasn’t changed much since the mix but it was done on the 21 of last month and I expected the Creams to mature more then they currently have. It’s not bad but it’s Nut heavy still. If they don’t come forward more in 2 more weeks I’ll do a V3 and up the Creams and back down the Nutty Professor
I’ve worked with the Creams and know what to expect but the NP was new and this was a wild assed toss it together test recipe as I couldn’t wait 
Looked up my notes in the data base on the nuts types I have single flavor tested
Almond (LorAnn) at Initial and again at 30 days and past @3% wicked strong with little or no change or fade over time
Walnut (Flavor Art) Faint from the bottle but developed nicely at 30 days and past.
Nutty Professor (OOO) good out of the jar and not much change or fade at 3 weeks
Hazelnut (SC) (Real) Just arrived but it’s not overwhelming at base mix 3%
So 2 that stayed much the same as they started and one that started weak but came along with time.
The Original BAN has a lot of cream and from my experience Bav and Swe Creams tend to amp each other at least the Cap and OOO versions do when I use the pair together with Fruits. They go Sweet X3 and I can dial them down accordingly. Not happening on this Nut mix.
I wonder if the Nuts are Masking the Creams more then I expect?
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So just as a general rule of thumb, figure an average of about 3 weeks for nut flavors?
I’m just looking for a ballpark figure. Because I really didn’t want to dump this recipe and start again.
I tend to steep my nut mixes for at least four weeks. If I vape them earlier, I find them to be a little bitter for my taste. The exception to that is mixes with Almonds.
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Some flavors fade and other “grow” with a steep(i call them sleepers) ex honey, caramel , brown sugar, most coconuts will increase in intensity as they steep. Many fruits fade (RF yumberry, RF raspberry, Cap sweet strawberry…while others blossom during steep(Cap honeydew, sweet gauva come to mind)
Factor in creams will lessen the intensity of everything (except nuts, coconut and…lol) especially fruits and you’ve got yourself a veritable rubix cube of flavor interactions. SF testing can establish a baseline for flavor strengths, steep periods. After that it becomes instinct and know how. Wayne from DIY or Die’s idea of blueprinting a mix is a good idea for this reason. You may be able to see what might fade or disapear based on other flavors and make necessary changes…
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