I have read, and noticed first hand how steeping smaller batches tends to go much faster. It has got me wondering.
This all comes down to getting oxygen into the mixture to speed the steeping process. I am no chemist. But wouldn’t it make more sense to steep our liquids on a dinner plate? Just throwing this out there for the comments I expect to fill this thread with thoughts and wisdom from the pros.
It only makes sense. A smaller batch has more surface area per milliliter. And I have some 5ml batches that surpassed recipes made 2 weeks prior. And I have noticed the bottles I have near empty that have been on the shelf awhile have turned a very dark color, and when I vape them the flavor has improved.
So I am going to try steeping part of my next mix in a 50ml bottle, and another 50ml of it in a Rubbermaid container with lots of surface area and see how they compare at different stages.
Ok, this little experiment begins today…
Into the closet it goes. I will test these in a week and check the coloring and how they vape.
Has anyone else tried this?
No, but theory makes a lot of sense. I just wonder how much juice you waste trying to bottle it after.
You’ll probably lose a lot of nicotine that way. It’s volatile so it will be in the air…
Oh, ok. Well, how about letting the flavors steep then adding nicotine when bottling? That is how our local vape shop sells their liquid. They add the nic when they sell it to you.
I have no evidence, but I believe steeping is more about allowing the flavor molecules to mingle than it is about allowing anything to oxidize.
Either that or it’s Voodoo.
I like to steep in glass for the purpose of it’s cleaner ( no leching ) I understand we work with LPDE and other safety bottles but glass you can’t beat. I use vials that are roughly 8 mls so I make 7 ml batches. I will say that plastic bottles seem to steep faster overall maybe there is a chance air is getting into the plastic ones even with the caps closed.
Here is an excellent thread on steeping @UncleJoe put a good amount of work into it but it gives you some direction. Hidden science behind normal and accelerated e-Liquid steeping
I agree w/ Lars your guna lose your nic in the tuberware, as well as bottling is guna be a bear. Honestly the fastest way to get air into your mix is spinning it on a mag mixer or frother. I also started using a rotary tool with a small attachment brush it work great as well when I dont have the time to run my mixer.
I am interested to hear your results when you test them again.
I’m thinking even w that you’d be allowing the chance for a ton of added hair and dust to your mixes… Maybe using big glass jars? I agree when I mix smaller amounts in large bottles seems to be a little faster. But then again I don’t really know maybe just easier to mix smaller amounts thoroughly…
This all started because I had a couple recipes in the closet that were made in the same bottles. Two bottles for each recipe. I nearly polished off one bottle of each minus a few ml right after I made them. Both recipes are a month old. The full bottles were starting to darken nicely. The bottles I tested out of and had only a few ml each left had darkened a lot more. I vaped them this weekend before the thought occurred to me to try this. I wish I had gotten a picture of it. Then I read on here in one of the threads that smaller batches steep faster. That is when it hit me. I thought “why is that?” So I came up with the conclusion it must be the amount of oxygen per ml that is causing the difference.
I understand glass is better. I use glass for recipes I plan to let stay in the closet for longer periods. This whole test is to see if there is a difference in how the same recipe steeps in this situation. Granted, one is in I believe an HDPE Tupperware bowl, and the other is in a PET bottle. So this isn’t an accurate test. I was looking last night for glass petri dishes. If this shows any kind of promise I am going to order a 150mm x 20mm petri dish and try it in all glass containers. This I assume is why chemists use petri dishes in the first place… more surface area. But I could be wrong.
I definitely makes my juice on a heated stir plate. As the juice mixes and a vortex forms it introduces oxygen to the equation and therefore the steep time is reduced from weeks to hours. I wish I knew how to load a video for demonstration
I have seen how hot plate magnetic stirrers work. I am still contemplating getting one so I can start mixing larger batches. I think I need a more accurate scale for that though. I currently use a hobby paint mixer which froths the juice up really good. I really can’t see a magnetic stirrer speeding things up by weeks. Maybe days. But then again, I have never used one. How long do you let yours stir? And at what temperature?
I think I am noticing the color change in the dish faster than the bottle so far. But just a slight difference. I plan to add some to my tank tomorrow to see how each mix vapes so far.
Generally speaking juices that takes two weeks to steep can be done in 2 to 3 days… in the majority of mixes they can be Vapes after four to six hours of stiring but I generally give them a day or so to rest. If you would like to friend me on Facebook it is Kenneth Scott Bledsoe or instant messenger.bledzepplin95. I can give you more information and you can see a few videos on my facebook
@Bled I sent a friend request. I will probably be buying a hot plate stirrer after Christmas.
I am testing the two mixes right now. The one in the Rubbermaid dish is phenominal. My best mix to date! The one in the bottle… it still needs to steep. I am noticing a very distinct difference in these two juices. The bottle juice is not as rich and developed as the one in the dish.
The color of each is still identical. I have placed the juice that was in the dish back in the bottle. The question was raised about how much juice would be lost. I actually don’t see a difference in the volume of either bottle.
I will continue to steep these two juices in the bottle now to see if one darkens more than the other. All I know right now is the one in the dish is definitely further along.
Don’t mean to bring up an old thread… but have you switched to using this method? Did you find that it worked consistently?
No, after getting the hotplate stirrer i geve up on this.
I left a bottle of juice in a warm car for 2 weeks and the difference was amazing.
I have tried numerous steeping methods. I have tried using heat. And I have tried using no heat. I have tried various stirring methods from frothing to stirring to shaking. I have tried various containers to let my juice steep in. The dish I used here, along with HDPE bottles, PET bottles, to clear and amber glass bottles. Now I am no expert. But I can give my conclusions. I think most will agree with some of the things I am saying. But some of my other theories may not be so agreed upon.
I am still undecided on whether or not to use heat. I do know that a juice is vapable sooner after adding heat. And I mean like 110-120 degrees for a few hours while stirring kind of heat. The juice will turn an amber color when I consider it done with the heating/stirring process. Some could argue this is the nicotine degrading. I personally do not believe that to be the case. The color I see after heating is not consistent with nicotine degradation. I cannot tell you the actual chemical process taking place with the addition of heat that causes this color change. But I can say the best juice I have ever made was stirred at 125 degrees for a little over 4 hours. And it was a custard. And it was good right off the stirrer. I have yet to reproduce it with natural steeping. Hence I do not talk about it on here. But to test - I have the same recipe in a 16 oz bottle right now. It is 4 months old. It doesn’t come close to how good that first mix was. The only difference was the use of heat.
I have had quite a few bottles of juice where the nicotine darkened. This is nicotine degradation. It went from being a clear juice to a very dark brown, almost black. They became very unvapable. The culprit? HDPE bottles and/or bubbles created while frothing the juice. Juices I have put into PET bottles never did this. In fact, the juices I have steeped in PET bottles have developed the same amber color over time as the juices I have stirred with heat for a few hours. Why the PET bottles turned an amber color sooner than in glass is beyond me. But HDPE will let oxygen and other gasses leach into your juices. PET is very resistant to the leaching of gasses, much like glass is. I have not seen a noticeable difference steeping in amber vs clear glass bottles. But nicotine degradation for me has only happened in HDPE bottles. And it has only happened with juices I have frothed. I have frothed juices in PET and glass bottles. None of them degraded.
It has all been a somewhat still confused learning process for me. But I have learned glass is the way to go no matter how you stir your liquids. Whether you use heat or no heat. Store in glass and your juice will last a lot longer. It will be clearer, and taste much better. The nicotine won’t degrade as fast. And all you will taste is the juice you put in it as it changes over time.
Another thing I have noticed is a juice may taste OK the first week. Shitty for three more weeks. Phenomenal the next week. Then shitty for two more weeks. Then mind blowing for the next couple months. It seems this can happen with any recipe. I have seen this with fruity vapes (which I don’t vape much of). I have seen this with more mild juices like floral vapes such as those given to me by @therabidweasel and my own Cream’n’ a lil’ Honey. And even @Pro_Vapes Cactus N Fruits Gmix, which to me was completely unvapable (because of the cactus I was told) when vaped from 3 weeks to 1-1/2 months old. But after a couple months it tamed down into my favorite fruity vape of any I have tried. It sometimes shocks me to try a juice I haven’t sampled in a while and realize I missed a very drastic transformation.
What I have found - all juice will continue to change. There is no set steeping time to reach the ultimate juice. Custards have been said to take a month or more to steep. I say this… Custards taste better after a month steep. But they taste even better after 2 months. And they taste even better after 3 months. I have yet to get past the 2 month mark and have a custard start tasting worse. And I think I have yet to have one stop getting better.
So, to conclude this long drawn out documentary of one mans findings… Heat? I cannot say for sure if natural steeping is better or not. All I can say is I don’t think any heating I have done has degraded my juice in any way. Stirring is better than frothing. I think the added oxygen in the mix by adding bubbles has caused me to lose a few bottles of juice. And invest in enough glass bottles to steep your liquids in. I have one I have steeped for 4 months in a Yoohoo bottle. It is one of my favs that I vape regularly. So don’t throw out a bottle that might be good for steeping in. Ya never know until ya try
Thank you for sharing your experience/ observations LordVapor I greatly appreciate it
Oh, as far as the dish vs the bottle, the juices turned out to eventually taste the same. The juice from the dish did get there a little sooner. I never noticed anything different with the nicotine.
This whole experiment was based on the fact that smaller quantities steep faster. The only thing I can see that would cause that (looking at what would be different) is the amount of surface area there is to the amount of liquid in the steeping vessel. So increasing the surface area by spreading the same amount of liquid across a larger container accomplished this.
So yeah, I think doing this in a glass dish would be a faster steeping method than in a glass bottle. It is messier. You lose a little juice transferring into a bottle afterwards. But if you have a juice you want to decrease the steeping time on, I believe this will work to some extent. I haven’t tested further. But if anybody else tries this I would love to hear your thoughts.