ok, some of you guys know what this is all about, but some dont…
i’ll just skim over it real quick:
MedicineFlower bottles are supposed to be 15ml, but apparently some of the bottles are not. some of the bottles are coming in at 13ml and at $22 a bottle, this has created a stir. well i reached out to a rep in their admin office and they gave me an explanation around specific gravity…
Original thread:
theyre not gonna change their bottles, theyre not gonna change their labels, theyre not changing their prices… but they are definitely willing to work with us. the rep told me what to do to offset the problem that we’re having… it has worked for me and i am quite pleased with the solution…
its not a written contract, and its not etched in stone, and im sure occasionally results will vary… the rep told me that as long as we are a making a paid order, that we are welcome to request samples to offset discrepancies in weight and/or volume. we are welcome to make specific requests and if they are able to accommodate then they will, but if not, we may end up with other samples.
so far, both times that i have ordered, the samples have more than taken care of the amounts missing. im sure for some of you, this wont be good enough, but it pleases me, and im sure it will please some people like @SthrnMixer and @Pro_Vapes
of course, if you have any questions, let em loose.
Thanks for the update and putting the press on them. I’m not surprised they are unwilling to change as those labels appear to be quite expensive.
BUT
15ml written on the bottle IS A CONTRACT. As you said, it wont be good enough for some and I’d bet you there are quite a few regulatory organizations around the world for whom this will be unsatisfactory. It’s pretty outrageous in my opinion. You simply cannot mislabel and mislead and expect that it’s OK. That if someone knows to ask, they will make it up to you. . .if they can.
I apologize for the impending profanity:
SLAP A FUCKING STICKER OVER THE “15ml” and put a disclaimer on your website that says you fucked up. THAT is the ONLY honorable thing to do. The rest is bullshit. Fuck that answer, they are not an honorable company and will not be getting a cent from me. I can abide an error, but not a lie.
Again, I apologize for the profanity. Medicine Flower is dead to me.
In Denmark it would be plain illegal. Labelling something and then short selling you. After all we’re talking 13-16% less in the bottle than what is declared!
I’m kinda with TRW on this one. Maybe not in such colorful language but if they say 15ml, they should give 15ml even if that means they have to put it in a bigger bottle. Or say it is 12ml and sell it as that. I’ve lived this long without MF flavors and been just fine. I’ll continue to be so, as I won’t be buying from them either unless they change. The DIY e-liquid community is likely a negligible portion of their clientele, judging by the products they produce and sell. It’s highly unlikely that us few dissatisfied will be enough to warrant a change on their parts, which is unfortunate. There’s other fish in the sea, though, so I’ll be taking my net elsewhere.
So to get this straight, they are selling by volume, but filling their bottles by weight? Why don’t they just fill the bottles up? Make sure to pass it on to them to check out the $200 shopping cart I have had sitting there until this gets resolved
Thougj I would definitely love more for money, from what I’m hearing I will still be making a purchase. Only thing stopping me is knowing that the price drops 7$ when you purchase 500$ worth. O right, I guess the only thing stopping me is not having the 500$ right now lol. End of next months cheque the first 500 goes to them
I mean, call me idealistic or whatever, but that would not be satisfactory for me. Non-ELR members still gettng shafted unknowingly. I could drop $200 on Medicine Flower if I wanted to. I probably will drop at least that on Flavorah as soon as ECX gets it in. But I cannot support a company that screws the unknowing. It’s unthinkable and also illegal in the US.
Here’s the thing, if you cannot trust their labels, exactly where does it end? Does organic mean organic? Natural mean natural? I dont even buy the filling by weight thing, I think that is just a CYA answer on their part because they were caught being negligent at minimum, flat out lying at the worst. Unwittingly negligent, I can understand and even tolerate if rectified honorably. In any case, they now know of the issue, so it is simply a lie at this point. How could you use their flavors with any confidence knowing that they will lie straight to your face? If they have a bad batch, does this demonstrate they will remedy it for you? I wonder if ECX is aware of this. I consider it shady to even associate with MF at this point.
I again apologize for the profanity earlier, but it’s the only device I know to convey the level of anger I feel toward this company. It’s absolutely preposterous. Even Volkswagen is addressing their issues now that they have been caught. @bluenose63 did us a great service by checking this out.
TRW, you nailed it. I’m still very tempted to purchase several of these flavorings based on reviews and coming from people I respect and trust. But this is just a short sighted bad business decision on Medicine Flower’s part. I firmly believe that good business decisions are good for your business. As JoJo said we may be a small enough group that we aren’t a blip on their radar. But, in good conscience, I can’t support a company that chooses not to correct a bad practice. Hand shake agreements to square up with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean, don’t cut it.
Isn’t there a division of the govt that deals with weights and measurements? It’s been put in place to protect consumers from this kind of practice. MF may be breaking the law if I’m not mistaken.
Cool. There are those on here that dont care and that’s their perogative. I do not mean to judge or cast aspersions. I say what I say for me. There is a right and a wrong in my world and I cannot support a wrong if I have options. Now that’s my belief and it applies to me. Everyone else is free to do as they feel and it’s not for me to judge. I’ve gotten a little riled up about this topic, but hey, I have rabies.
OK, cudos again to bluenose63 and @Whiterose0818 for running this to ground and sharing with the community. They both did so in a much classier way than me. Good job guys.
(@grammyvapes Yes I am sure that some enforcement could be brought against them for selling falsely labeled products. However, I would prefer to put pressure on them economically until they cave and behave respectably rather than try and put them out of business. My guess is that this is an honest mistake that they are, as yet, unwilling to correct. . .but they are testing the believe-ability of that hypothesis. If someone does want to sick the government on them, this thread alone will make it very hard for them to maneuver. I dont mean to be dismissive or anything. Again, per the above, if someone wanted to pursue that avenue I wouldn’t counsel them to do other than what they thought best. I have never bought from them, and wont, so it isn’t my place.)
So is their excuse that (despite the label) they’re actually selling by weight not volume?
Or do they really not know the specific gravities for their own products?
I’m intrigued.
I’m in the mood to buy a couple of bottles from an EU distributor and then force my local trading standards office (local government agency that enforces labelling regs) to sue them.
But that would harm the distributor (a relatively innocent party) and potentially see the products banned from importation into the entire EU market when all I want is to give a wake-up call to the MFing MFs.
Botboy has explained on Reddit that effectively the MF bottles aren’t large enough to accommodate 15ml of extract and from his conversations with them that - my paraphrasing - they don’t want or need our business.
So… has anyone here in Europe tried Herrlan super-concentrates?
Recommended usage seems to be 1-3% for most of their flavour range (plus a handful at 4-8%) and far cheaper and easier to obtain.
I was going to place an order with MF until I found out about the shady business practices.I do appreciate them offering free samples to anyone that complains, but as already stated that isn’t the point.When a company knowingly tries to mislead me I will go elsewhere.If I can’t trust them on quantity I for sure can’t trust them on quality.
I am sure like other flavors, ECX re-bottles their stuff as they buy in bulk. So I am guessing the ECX bottles are spot on. I will buy from them because ECX is phenomenal at customer support.
Medicine Flower needs to state - “Sold in 15ml bottles, but quantities may vary”. That’s basically what they are saying right?
but if they say 15ml, they should give 15ml even if that means they have to put it in a bigger bottle. Or say it is 12ml and sell it as that. I’ve lived this long without MF flavors and been just fine. I’ll continue to be so, as I won’t be buying from them either unless they change. The DIY e-liquid community is likely a negligible portion of their clientele, judging by the products they produce and sell. It’s highly unlikely that us few dissatisfied will be enough to warrant a change on their parts, which is unfortunate. There’s other fish in the sea, though, so I’ll be taking my net elsewhere. 
