You gotta fight⊠for your right⊠to vape propylene-glycollllllll!
Or Vegetable Glycerin. Loveâs all the way around.
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Oh, that menthol thing⊠I vape about 15 ML of menthol vape a day. This VG mix smooths out the menthol. If you go too high on he wattage with menthol you will smoke through coils like a⊠yeah. Fire. Menthol is very hard on coils. I get two weeks out of a custard tank coil. Menthol coil is toast in a week.
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PG is also used as a preservative and âŠit kills bacteria.
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Yeah I find the tanks I use for menthol go through coils faster than my fruity tanks. I usually keep each tank for the same general profile, lol.[quote=âMaureeenie, post:55, topic:138190, full:trueâ]
PG is also used as a preservative and âŠit kills bacteria.
[/quote]
And see, this is why I probably wonât go completely PG free. Someone recently posted a scientific break down about the % of PG that maintained a sterile environment in liquids. Iâd still love the smoother.texture and to use less PG if I can manage it.
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Itâs in a ton of flavors people use, you really canât completely get away from it.
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This is the list of Open Source Juices and I think all of them call for 6-10% Penta Water. Copied from.
Anonymiss
Jun '16
All Recipes are now copied into ELR, really sucks what happened to them seems incredibly unfair 
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Oh Wow! Thank you.
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Cool, let me know if you like it. The big difference is you just need a a couple days longer steep.
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Crock pots on âlowâ generally range in the 170-210°F region.
I have a collection of 4oz mason jars that I use for mixing/heating/steeping (with lids off). I have used Maureenieâs methods (slightly varied) with great success so far.
The Vodka/Water/VG base (mine is a bit thicker than Maureeenieâs) I let sit in a tightly SEALED Mason jar for at least 2 or 3 days after an initial decent stirring/mixing.
My take on her method involves putting all ingredients into the mason jar along with the VG Base marked on the claculator as simply âmax vgâ with â0â marked in for water/pg/pga. Add your nic in as per usual.
I mix the chemicals together with a little milk frother gizmo ($5.95 from Liquid Barn) that makes short order out of the more cumbersome âshaking your mix until bubblyâ (because Iâm a lazy ass). Once I have the mix looking like a nice cappuccino frappĂ© (bubbly white) I take the ring portion of the mason jar lid, stretch a lint-less tissue over the top of the jar and screw that ring down onto the jar lightly so that there is now a porous cover on the jar that BREATHES and will allow the gassing off process to occur while keeping your juice (pure) and free of junk falling into it while heating/steeping etc⊠Fire up the oven at a nice even 185°F and set the jar in there for about an hour on a baking stone. Pull the jar out after the time is up and hit it hard with the frother thingy until a nice cappuccino frappĂ© is once again achieved. Set the jar with the porous cover on it aside overnight. Open again the next day and FrappĂ© the crap out of it. Let it sit for the rest of that day and overnight (were now 2 days in). Third day, remove from the mason jar into squeezy bottles (unicorns, droppers, regular glass, whatever you like), cover, and âthrow in a drawer for a weekâ.
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You obviously took a great deal of time, thought, and effort to share your personal methodology, and I think itâs wonderfully kind of you to share your perspective!
I did want to call your attention to something you may not be aware of however in the following aspect of your shared suggestions/method.
In another forum (rather well known) there was a monster thread about steeping, and whether or not to heat, etc (a couple thousand posts) where some individuals did some empirical style testing, and were able to verify (through titration testing) that there is a measurable loss of nicotine potency above a certain point (temperature wise).
IIRC the number was 150°F.
Now I forget what the ratio was (decrease in efficacy of nicotine vs increase in temperature), but I read through the entirety of those 2000+ posts (which is where it left off when I last saw it almost two years ago). The main thing I took from it (for my point of view) was that I didnât want to exceed 125-135°F which, again IIRC, equated to a 1mg loss of nicotine (important if youâre only mixing 3mg to start with, but barely important at all if youâre mixing 12-18mg or more). In practice, I donât ever exceed 115°F anymore in my ultrasonic cleaner. But thatâs where mine maxes out fortunately.
I remember the loss was noticeably greater at 150°F, and fairly sure that Temps above that was not recommended.
Anyways, given youâre using (and recommending) 185°F, I would definitely recommend looking further into the correlation between nicotine efficacy and temperature. Especially if youâre mixing 3mg or less. 
Hope you donât take offense, as I only want to see you (and others) have the best possible experience (and results)!
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Hey no offense at all! That temperature number is critical! Thank you thank you! 115 is the magic number!
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Hmm - Interesting.
Personally I havenât noticed much of a difference > physically < when vaping 3mg juice made this way. I.E. Iâm not having nic fits due to lack of nic getting to the bloodstream. Not sure about Maureeenie, since she heats hers twice as long as I do⊠Maybe she can attest to physically noticing losses in nic potency with her juices??
However, I have a fluke infra red thermo handy, and will certainly monitor the liquid temp when heating the stuff up. My oven only goes down to 170°F but the actual liquid temp can be monitored so as to not exceed the 115°F threshold. It basically amounts to how long one exposes the liquid to the heat. Pretty easy to control.
Thanks for the heads up on that!
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I vape heavy and I need it very low. If I go above 1.5MG I get the head zoomies.
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Just mixed a Vanilla Pineapple Creame and monitored the liquid temperature closely with the IR thermo. At 170°F (the lowest settable temp my oven can go) ~9 minutes in the oven raised the temp of the liquid to right around 115-116°F.
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Thanks a lot for all this information⊠I started vaping no so long ago, 15days to be exactly and quite happy with the decision since it is the very first time in 30years I have manage to really stop smoking but, I have started noticing a discomfort and after trying different ejuices I found that 20PG is the top before I start to feel bad. I have made my very first 60ml of DiY ejuice at 20/80 but, the next will be without PG except for the one on the nicotine (I already bought it so, nothing to do about until is empty) and the flavors.
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My Liter of PDO is getting low and I donât plan to replace. I have no problems with PG lung-wise, and as I have stated before itâs basically a way to cut the clouds as my wife doesnât vape⊠makes watching TV together much more sociable 
When I started DIY the Marketing term âMax VGâ was big so I thought I would adopt the Max VG strategy âŠdidnât work out for me as I was using Kanger subohm tanks. This topic has some hidden details I think shouldnât be missed, and have been within other fractured topics.
First @Maureeenieâs process looks like itâs already been part of a Commercially adopted strategy at Open Vapor minus the alcohol part. IIRC Penta Water was previously discussed and one of he factors was itâs pH which was slightly alkaline (pH8?) There have been discussion on how alkalinity speeds the Maillard Reaction (steepingâs scientific term) .
The alcohol part is interesting. Now we all buy flavoring from ReallFlavors that are alcohol-based, so again some Commercial adoption of the concept of using alcohol as a flavor carrier. These two commercial applications are proof enough for me to consider personal adoption/tests.
IIRC @Maureeenieâs previous advice was using 100 proof vodka 50% alcohol. That would mean 2ml of 100 proof vodka was 1 ml of water and 1 ml alcohol in a recipe âŠobvious but might factor in recipe calcs. I mean if I think adding 5% water is smart and adding 1% alcohol is smart should I then choose 4% water and 1-2% Vodka [rhetorical question]âŠdonât answer]?
Buying Pena water? Also a previous topic searchable on ELR Forum. That topic being whether just adding distilled water (pH 7?) @ 5% per the OpenSource recipes mentioned above is as successful as adding the more alkaline Penta Water? âŠthis having zero to do with Maureneâs claims or process, just considering the process analysis overall.
I donât want to get hung up on Penta water, but I am stuck on using some kind of slightly alkaline water because I think it might be important as a steeping performance boost. I think we saw some video that also said Fiji brand drinking water was also close to 8 pH âŠbut I would definitely be boiling that âŠhmmm maybe even distilling it and pH testing. Remembering a 1L bottle of water for e-juice DIY would last 1+ years.
On PDO. Iâm discontinuing because it affects my recipe sharing and flavor analysis (oh yeah and Iâm running out). If I am experiencing muting with RealFlavors past the two week mark I cannot make any claims or personal evaluations as I have two wild cards in the mix. I might go back to VG/PG temporarily just to get grounded in that regard.
So⊠I like this idea for a couple reasons. It makes some Chemistry sense in my opinion and shows some professional validation as being done commercially. Weâre DIYing it here folks and we have come up with some weird tricks in the past. Weâre on our own, and lucky to get internal commercial peeks into Juice-making such as OpenVaporâs recipes.
I think this idea has some traction and itâs top of my list to test. I currently add 1% DW to all my recipes along with about 20% PDO. I just have a hard time going to the Liquor Store and leaving with 1 airline mini of Vodka
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I will try the Penta water for sure! I can also try the 2% Vodka and 4% Distilled WaterâŠbut the PH factor is always altered by the addition of the flavors. I know when the PH is off by how it feels when I vape it. If the PH is off by too much, itâs quite unpleasant. I get zero irritation in my mixes and my kids vape it like koolaid.
I guess the thing I think is the most important is the fact people âtryâ these things. They shouldnât be afraid to add or change percentages of things that work for other people.
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The thing is with making the base with the solvent pre-installed, it still takes a bit of time for that mix to coalesce. The water I use is deep (500+ feet) well water filtered twice at the pump and triple osmosis filtered in the house. Raw ground water lab tests done at the time of well drilling finds that there are no outside âman madeâ contaminants other than natural earthen minerals and salts. So after strict filtration itâs extremely pure. More so than distilled water from a bottle. This makes for very stable mixing, but it still takes what time it takes for mixes to âcome into their ownâ so to speak. I have read most âdistilledâ waters you get from a bottle are simply local city water from where the plant is located thatâs filtered, distilled and put in a bottle. Sort of a dicey affair as the suppliers of this water arenât really required to list analytical specâs about the chemical breakdown of what they are putting into the bottle. Distillation is a pretty decent way of removing contaminants but it solely depends on the distillation process that the suppliers are using with regard to getting out the contaminants that have boiling points under that of the water itself. Most city water these days are chock full of âman madeâ contaminants that never really belonged in water in the first place. Distilled water, if the process used has indeed rendered it totally pure, when exposed to air will naturally absorb COÂČ making the ideal pH of 7 slightly lower or more acidic. As far as PH figures being âoffâ if the water is truly pure you can raise the pH slightly by adding baking soda to it.
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CONGRATS on quitting!! Your story is what this is all about at the end of the day.
As far as the PG allergy goes⊠Youâll probably grow less tolerant to PG the longer youâre vaping it. If youâre anything like me when I started vaping, commercial juices that were readily available at most shops ALL contained PG (to one degree or another) as a solvent. I kept noticing that the effects - stomach pain, sore/lumpy throat, headache, nausea, would get worse each time I would vape juice with PG in it. Now itâs to the point that if there is even 1-2% of PG in a mix I will have symptoms.
At the time I started vaping, there werenât that many juiceerâs making PG free juices. Also the cost of commercially made juice was prohibitive to the point of ridiculous (itâs even worse now)⊠So with DIY you have complete control over what youâre pouring into your atomizer and the cost is a fraction of what you pay for commercial juice unless you count your time that you spend making it. And yes, the supplies you need to make juice do cost money as well but if you roll the numbers youâll find you cut your costs by more than half with DIY.
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