Hmm you make a valid point about %s as an otherwise obscene amount can and will work with the right combination of flavors. Highest i have gone with FA vienna is 3% but it was straight paint thinner for a long time. Eventually though it was amazing, i it got better and better and i had it for over a year (lol newbie huge batch) i even used it to seed recipes. How long did you steep the 5%?
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According to my notes that mixture steeped for 7 weeks.
Canāt seem to find anything in my tasting notes before that period.
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Hi everyone
This is my first post, but I think I coincidentially found some key insights into your conundrum, it mifht not be a flavor at all, but a chemical, have a read through these articles:
https://www.nudenicotine.com/additional-eliquid-ingredients-sweetners-sours-and-salts/
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/t-FlavorWorkshopCustard.aspx
Although reading about the different chemicals contributing to one of my favorite flavors, Iām slightly disturbedā¦
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Welcome to the ELR forums =)
Glad you found us, and even happier that you chose to take take the plunge and participate!
Please feel free to take a moment (at your convenience of course), and hit the āIntroduce yourselfā thread!
Always happy to see a new face contributing! 
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This is one of the most insightful things Iāve read on ELR in some time. Iād add to that - we get comfortable with our flavors and that hinders our creativity. OMG am I just SOOO guilty here! Thanks Chewy for this spot of knowledge. Iām going to take this into my next juice creation session.
inspired
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I agree that we sometimes do this but lets also use a bit of caution when recommending this. I donāt want some new mixer reading this and think this will work for them. Those of us that have been mixing a long while can manage the higher pushes while new mixers may run into a lot of problems if they try this.
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Good point. Hereās anotherā¦new mixers arenāt comfortable with their flavors. 
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@SthrnMixer @Beaufort_Batches
You guys are spot on.
I would never advocate any beginner to turn the dial up but I would remind them that when they travel down this exciting mixing road that being adventurous could help them understand that this in most part, is not an exact science as such and that to inspire themselves they have to remember and have fun when mixing.
So what if we ruin 10 or 20ml of liquid in our pursuit of the holy grail, we can only learn from it!
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A member on my other forum shared this with us. Maybe it could be helpful to this topic.
āMy husband did a lot of work on this, and I think it is very helpful to all DIYers.ā
āI have been feverishly working on new diy flavors for almost 2 months now. I was once a chef, and I know flavors. I also used to process my own tobacco so i know something of enhancers/additives. When I began studying ejuice about a month before I started vaping, I found myself faced with a whole new set of strange sounding chemicals to learn about. I thought i would share some of my notes on what I have learned so far as regards vaping additives. I hope maybe it will save you fellows some time researching them.ā
Here we goā¦
Acetyl Pyrazine- Sold by tpa. Used in cigarettes and cookies to impart a
"toasty" taste. Gives your juice a baked, toasted, or crispy note at 0.5%. At 1%,
it adds the taste of toasted mixed nuts. At 2% it adds a taste similar to Fritos
corn chips.
Caffeine- Sold by fw. The active ingredient in coffee. Does almost nothing
for your juice. According to my brother (who has Ph. D.s. in both pharmacology and
toxicology), you would have to sub-ohm over an ounce of 10% caffeine juice at
about 70w to get the effect of 1 cup of coffee. Pretty much useless. To anyone who
says they get a buzz from vaping caffeine, Iād like to borrow you for a stage
hypnosis act!
Capsicum- Sold by fw. The chemical that makes hot peppers hot; also used as
an analgesic. used in VERY SMALL amounts in your juice, it can cure sore throat. A
little more and youāve got yourself an ejuice akin to hot pepper joke gum. More
than that, and you may win a one-way ticket to the emergency room. This stuff can
be dangerous. Keep in mind that the capsicum sold by fw is 375 times the strength
of the hottest pepper known to man.
Ester of Wood Rosin- Sold by fa as bitter wizard, also a main ingredient of
mts vape wizard by fa. Used in Gatorade and some colas to give a bitter note. At
0.5%, masks the flavor of vg and pg, thus only leaving the taste of your flavor
mix. At 1% or higher, gives the pleasant bitter ring of colas, whiskeys, or dark
chocolate.
Ethylguaiacol- Sold by sv and is a main ingredient of dnb drops wg by inw.
Adds a smoky, ashy note to your juice. Great for making cigar, cigarette, and pipe
flavors more realistic. This stuff requires a long steep in order to taste it, at
least 2 weeks.
Ethyl Maltol- Sold by tpa. Besides sugar, this is the other major ingredient
in cotton candy (floss), which gives it its characteristic flavor. It is commonly
used as a sweetener in ejuice. Its physical properties cause it to gunk up coils
slightly.
Gamma Octalactone- Sold by tpa and sv. This is the stuff they put in
fudgesicles and other non-dairy treats to make them taste creamy. At 50ppm, it
will make any juice you make extra creamy; youād swear thereās real cream in it!
WARNINGS: Any more than 50ppm tastes atrocious. Tpa sells it full strength, so
you will need to dilute it to 1% in pg before using; then you can measure it to
0.5% of your mix.
Guaiacol- Sold by tpa, and is a main ingredient of both black fire by fa and
dnb drops wg by inw. This is the chemical that gives smoked meat and fish their
smoky flavor. As you can imagine, it makes anything you mix it with taste smoked,
but not burned. It also adds throat hit. It must be steeped for at least 2 weeks
to reach its full potential.
Isobutavan- Sold by tpa, and is a main ingredient of mts vape wizard by fa,
smooth by tpa, and flavor toner/enhancer by fw. This is the āthickeningā agent in
the aforementioned enhancers. It does not actually thicken your juice any, but
alters the mouth feel of the vapor to seem thicker. It also cancels the vapor
thinning effect of some flavorings, thus making your clouds appear denser. Too
much of it makes everything taste like vanilla.
Malic Acid- Sold as sour by tpa. This is the sour note in old fashioned sour
balls candy as well as salt and vinegar crisps. Iām sure you get where this is
going regarding ejuice. It tends to form crystals on coils. WARNINGS: Like any
acid, this stuff eats kanthol, albeit slowly, and when used with nickel coils,
produces nickel compounds classified as class āAā carcinogens (sorry tc fans, and
no, Iām not showing any documentation, as it is simple chemistry: nickel+acid
+air=horrible, dangerous stuff; read a ā¦ing textbook).
4-Methyl Guaiacol- Sold by tpa and is a main ingredient of black fire by fa.
Added to foods to make them taste as if they have been cooked on a grill or over a
campfire. Gives your juice a wood, charcoal, or coal fire note. Just a touch can
make your toasted marshmallow vape really take you back to camping with the folks.
Methyl Menthyl Acetate- Sold as koolada by tpa and kool effects by fw.
Menthol cool without menthol taste. That simple. Of course, you can make your own
by simply dissolving menthol crystals into pg and cooking it at 180F until it no
longer smells like menthol. It takes a long time, much patience, and careful
heating; this is how I do it, but then, Iām an alchemist.
Piperine- Sold as flash by fa. This is what gives black pepper its spiciness
Can be used to add throat hit or mixed in equal measure with fa pepper black to
add the taste of fresh cracked pepper to your savory mixes.
Sucralose- Sold by tpa. Artificial sweetener that is ubiquitous, you know,
everywhere and in everything; itās āsplenda, the artificial sweetener made from
real sugar!ā Well, being made from sugar, you can imagine what it does to coils,
not to mention that a dry hit of this will give you more ātarā than the analogues
youāre likely trying to avoid.
Syringol- Sold in pure crystal form by tpa (for a limited time only) and is a
main ingredient in both black fire by fa and dnb drops wg by inw. This is the
chemical that gives smoked meat and fish their smoky aroma. It is the main flavor
in all commercial smoke flavorings, and was even added to Gen. Patch action
figures in the 80s to give them the āsmell of battleā. Mix crystals 13.5% in pg to
make extract. Be careful not to overdo it with this flavor, or your juice will
taste like phenol (that nasty background note in sore throat spray).
Triacetin- Sold as aaa magic mask by fa, and is a main ingredient of mts vape
wizard by fa, smooth by tpa, and flavor toner/enhancer by fw. This stuff is used
in many processed foods and in cigarette filters to smooth out harsh notes. It
does this by temporarily numbing certain taste receptors in your tongue. This is
the reason you can stomach breakfast cereals, microwave meals, and all the added
paper and other trash they put in commercial cigarettes. Likewise, it can make
some ejuices tolerable, maybe even tasty, that without it would be abominable.
This stuff is actually amazing. If you really suck at diy, and your juice tastes
like an abortion, you need this stuff; it can save even some of the worst tasting
mixes. SIDENOTE: Triacetin is also the most amazing coil cleaner! It actually does
for cotton what conditioner does for hair; vg slowly clogs wicks, and pg makes the
fibers brittle, but aaa unclogs wicks and plasticizes fibers, leaving them
flexible once more.
Triethyl Citrate- Sold by tpa. This is an emulsifier used to make essential
oils water soluable. It is used by fa, tpa, inw, fw, cap, hs, and just about every
flavor company everywhere. It is used in most popular flavors. This is the āsecret
ingredientā that turns oil soluables into water soluables, if you know how to use
it. think of it as āthe flavorerās stoneā, sought after to turn crap flavors into
gold.
Trimethyl Pyrazine- Sold by tpa. nearly identical to acetyl pyrazine at top
of list.
Karebear, Nov 16, 2015
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Thank you!
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Thanks for the notes. Iām new to diy and trying to find all the good info I can. I think this will help me out tremendously.
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Welcome, Oso, nice to meet you. Itās a lot to take in. Iām fairly new to DIY, myself.
Tip: When you scroll through members recipes click on the tiny āiā just left of the authorās name. That will quickly show you the flavors used in their recipe. Many are just single flavor testers that you may want to skip. There is so much info on this site your head could spin. I nose around and follow mixers that have similar tastes as I. That way I can go straight to what Iām looking for. And donāt forget to bookmark and add favorites so you can easily reference them. This place is HUGE! Best of luckā¦
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Excellent info there thanks.
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Thanks @Cutlass92, I did try quite a few variations of the Sāmores with FA Black Fire, and although adding a smoky flavor to my mix, it pulled the whole thing off profile, even with small amounts. I do appreciate the heads up though.
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Just trying to help brotha man!
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Lovinā the help !!!
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This is definitely on target and Iāve never seen this mentioned before ā¦50 parts per million? Sounds like a cost effective way to get some extra creaminess
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this sounds very interesting especially for cream lovers
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