I use Liion Wholesaler. If you message them they will help you choose wisely. Good pricing and I like their wraps as well.
4 Likes
Holy shit, my unit is only 8.89cm!
2 Likes
I’m a grower not a show-er
2 Likes
Yes. I first came across something other than a friend “telling me they heard” that batteries can explode, or that those little scooter things blow up and ruin Christmas…
I have a “vape couple” I know.
I was over at their house and the wife says, “holy crap Johnny, check your batteries and make sure the wraps aren’t compromised, I had one blow up on me the other day!”.
Then she proceeds to show me two of the places it landed when it shot off her hand, which was burnt, then the counter top, then landed on the sill of the back splash in the kitchen, and burnt that too. They said the house was filled with smoke, and HE heard it explode from the other room. So. Yeah. I don’t ever want that to happen. Then he proceeded to show me how the battery is constructed and why one might blow up. It’s some scary stuff.
2 Likes
These batteries work as intended for a few hundred charge-discharge cycles - after which their ability to hold a charge diminishes - and they probably should be disposed of - rather than trying to squeeze every last electron out of an ~$5 item. (In most cases), once one is considering re-wrapping a battery (due to holes and/or tears in plastic sleeving), it might well be time to simply dispose of them - as opposed to tempting fate.
The electrical potential of the entire (metallic, unwrapped) battery casing is at the negative terminal voltage. (Barring insanely stupid mod/mech designs that could/would depend only upon plastic sleeves as insulation against battery-to-battery short-circuit disasters), the significant (single battery) electrical dangers surround possible short-circuits between the positive voltage potential terminal and the (there nearby) surrounding metallic casing that exists at the negative terminal voltage potential. Never try to use anything that is at all electrically conductive (such as metal screwdriver blades) in order to try to pry (the positive voltage terminal side of) a battery out of a “sticky” device battery-receptacle. Avoid any and all mechanical stresses placed upon the positive potential voltage end. That (in the single-battery case) is the critical “location of danger”.
.
Applicable to Li-Ion type battery failures from use and/or aging (not associated with mechanical damages):
“Weird Growths Appear Before Batteries Explode, And Scientists Finally Got a Close-Up Look”
Original Source Article (2017):
“Atomic structure of sensitive battery materials and interfaces revealed by cryo–electron microscopy”
.
It has been observed that the vast majority of thermal runaway reactions that occur in the field occur during or shortly after cell charging. From an energy perspective, cell thermal runaway is unlikely to occur in a cell at a low SOC. … the heat transfer environment of a cell undergoing a thermal runaway reaction can play a large role in the severity of the reaction. High ambient temperatures or adiabatic insulation will increase the likelihood that any given internal fault can drive a cell to thermal runaway, and increase the energy available to heat the cell. Conversely, if a cell is surrounded by thermally conducting media (e.g., surrounded by densely packed cells or coolant), heat loss may prevent or mitigate a thermal runaway reaction. …
… As part of manufacturing, lithium-ion cells undergo initial cycling and aging a part of a “formation” process (discussed above). Normal formation will produce flammable gases which, depending upon the cell design, may or may not be vented during this process. Formation gases are vented from large format cells, prismatic cells, and pouch cells. They are not vented from small cylindrical cells such as 18650s but rather remain contained within the cell case. … At the end of initial cell cycling and aging, cell manufacturers typically bring cells to a low to moderate SOC. This is done because manufacturers anticipate their cells may undergo extended transport and storage times prior to delivery to a customer. Properly designed and manufactured lithium-ion cells have very low self-discharge rates; commonly quoted in the range of 1 to 5% per month. When stored at 25°C (77°F) or below, and initially at approximately 50% SOC, a high quality lithium-ion cell can be expected to experience minimal internal impedance growth, and remain within an acceptable voltage range for many years.
Storage (calendar life aging) at elevated temperatures and high voltages (high SOC) results in enhanced degradation of cell components resulting in increased internal impedance. Storage at low voltages (low SOC), and/or low temperatures, reduces the magnitude of the calendar life aging effect, and would thus, seem to indicate that storage at low voltages is preferable for maximizing cell life. However, most lithium-ion cell designs suffer from degradation if allowed to remain in a severely over-discharged state (cell voltage approximately 1 V): corrosion of copper current collectors can occur, leading to rapid impedance growth, and sometimes resulting in cell thermal runaway upon cell recharging. Thus, putting a discharged cell (at approximately 3 V) into storage is generally discouraged as extended storage periods can result in cell over-discharge.
Source: https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1719/ML17191A294.pdf
.
“Battery Fires and Explosions – Expert Article on Lithium Battery Cell Protections”
.
Note that the battery types here in question do not include a Protection Circuit Module (PCM) - an electronic circuit that can protect the battery against overcharge, over discharge, short circuit, and over current. Do not allow battery voltage to fall below ~2.9 V; or charge near/below 0 *C (32 *F); or allow to over-charge. Store at a state of ~50% charge, which corresponds to ~3.5 Volts (for 2500-3000 mAH capacity 18650s). As many Mods appear to require more than ~3.5 V to operate, that corresponds to a lot of wasted capacity [ie, Samsung 25Rs and 30Qs (at 5 Amps discharge rate) discharge to 3.5 Volts around a mere 1500 mAH].
5 Likes
Wow, that battery mooch guy is the nuts.
Thank you for the recommendation.
I can’t claim to understand every single thing he covers, but I’m getting about 70 percent of it, which is way more than I need to know, and I’m watching the video now (after patiently watching and learning from his other ones), that tells me the answer to “what is the best battery?”, which really is what I wanted to know.
Now it’s a matter of writing down the top 3 and going shopping for them with price considered.
Very helpful.
5 Likes
The unique appeal of Molicel brand (manufactured in Canada) batteries is that if you happen to receive a dud or two when purchasing, you will not be disowned for using them for vaping-related applications (or forced to conceal that fact completely, and hope that the vendor “buys it”). Molicel states that they sell through a few sources that re-wrap their cells - the IMR company in Texas that I frequent being one.
I started with Samsung 25Rs (2500 mAH) at $4, and bought some Samsung 30Qs (3000 mAH) at $5. Due to the fact that my (and likely most others’) mods will not function under ~3.4-3.5 Volts, the advertised increased charge storage capacity (rated in mAH) is almost nil (as mentioned in my previous post on this thread). Even though the Molicel P26As (2600 mAH) are $5.50 each, having genuine and straightforward product support (in case of receiving defective units) might be worth the small increase in purchase price.
For a fellow such as yourself (given your listed Wattage range), the Molicel P26As appear to be the kind of (relatively, for 18650 size batts) high discharge Current capacity batteries that would be desirable to utilize.
2 Likes
I usually get the Samsung 30Q’s simply because they’re cheap. I’ve also tried VTC6’s from Sony, VTC5’s and VTC4, LG H2.
I was least impressed with the LG ones because I had to replace them first (like a full year and a half earlier than the Sony), but otherwise in use, I can’t say I noticed a hell of a difference. At least nothing that would justify the price difference between the cells.
I have to say, I use a triple battery DNA 200 and DNA 250C and usually vape around 60W… so any battery that has a CDR of 10A would do for me, actually, that would be overkill but a safety margin is always nice. Any of the above listed batteries will at least double that amount. On your Geekvape Legend, with only a dual battery, you’d be fine with any battery that has a CDR of 15A. That means you have a wide selection of options!
(Of course, that is not taking in account any accidents that might happen, like firing at higher than intended wattage. I rarely have that issue because I’m using temp control settings with fixed wattage).
The lower the stress is on your batteries, the longer the will last… but there is a point when the stress is so low that it’s not going to make a huge difference. Want to buy a Sony, a Samsung or a Molicel… I’m sure it’s not going to make a huge difference. They’ll all be good and if I were in your shoes, I’d just watch the price of the cells. Put the savings towards some good juice 
3 Likes
Thanks!
You’re always very helpful in your contributions and I appreciate your comprehensive response.
I ordered a couple of each of the big three (LG, Sony vtc6, and Samsung 30r), but then 4 Samsung 25R because you know, 3.99.
Illumn is a cool website.
3 Likes
If your battery wraps are damaged, remember to get new ones
Not only does it protect you from catastrophic battery failure, it makes you look cooler to other vapers!
3 Likes
5 Likes
2 Likes
Well, that’s before you press the fire button five times fast.
3 Likes
That video of the girl vape tricking, you can play the beginning of Pink Floyd’s “Money”, with the cash register chinging to that, and it would synch.
Watch it and see.
6 Likes
Molicel. Wow.
Never heard of them. Of course until 2 days ago I hadn’t heard of anything other than “the pink ones” or “those silver and black ones I robbed from an unusable kit from out of a $100 box of antiquated crap I bought from a former EBay seller” batteries.
But now that I’ve watched that Mooch guy, I’m an expert, and need to know if these are “re-wraps” from one of the reputable and respected child slavery factories overseas, or is there actually a place in Canada that makes batteries with little Maple leafs on them? Maple leaves? Or Maple leafs?
Leaves fall. But do Maple leaf logos?
Anyway, tell me more.
Wait, When you tell, you freaking TELL.
Who is Molicel?
I ask, at the risk of learning in great detail, who actually discovered North America which includes Canada, but also about a battery company I haven’t heard of in the last 48 hours.
Love you Raven! I hope my poking fun at your hyper informative comments will be met with similar and equal derisive yet fun jabs at my folksy slang and self deprecating humor.
2 Likes
You have to lick the plastic battery wrap (on the side, not on the ends) to see if it tastes like Maple syrup to know.
If it tastes like RY4, it’s Chinese. 
5 Likes
Thanks for the entertainment. I write what I do for your (as well as possible other “similarly situated” readers of these forum threads) edification and enlightenment. My philosophy is try to be comprehensive in terms of information shared. I figure that it is easier to skip over information than to be bereft of that info completely. The first clue to the solution is to follow the link to the Molicel company’s web-site that I previously provided.
At their “about” page, one finds the statement:
A brand known for first manufacturer of lithium metal rechargeable cell in the world and first Li-ion cell in North America.
It looks like their headquarters, sales, and factory facilities are located in Tainan, Taiwan.
(IIRC), their designated distributors (such a IMR, as mentioned) wrap their cells before US retail sale ?
Contact them (at their offices located in Maple Ridge, BC, Canada) with an inquisitory epistle or two:
molicel@molienergy.com
.
For folks who use Mods that use multiple battery cells for power, the inter-battery consistency (of the discharge voltage curves over time) that “The Mooch” reports for the six Molicel P26As that he tested bodes well for a good (multi-cell) experience (due to the reported relatively good inter-cell matching of discharge characteristics) - as multiple cell performance is limited by the “weakest link” in the “daisy-chain”.
.
Also important not to use chargers that run hot - as this significantly increases the possibilities of trouble. I bought a Efest LUC V2 (dual battery) charger a while back. It works pretty good for me. IMR sells them for ~$20. I take a conservative approach, set the mechanical switch to a 0.5 Amp per battery charging current limit (can also be set for 1.0 Amp limit per battery), and (typically) only charge one single battery at a time. Slower charging rates are better all around (if one has patience). A minimum of charger (and battery cell) heat is generated as a result. A lot of the reported battery fires and worse reported seem to evolve out of people loading-up bigger (4 and 6 battery cell capacity) chargers, causing the units (as well as batteries inserted in them) to run hotter than with 1 or 2 battery cells. Read a number of Nitecore incident stories (although a friend has used a Nitecore without incident for several years). Did not find similar Efest stories.
Here is a recent review by “The Mooch” of the Efest LUC V4 model. He knocks a lack of accuracy of the charger voltage measurement (uncertain by ~100 mV), but I don’t find that a deal-killer. The Efest V2 display (in general) seems better than descriptions (by others) of Nitecore displays (at least, their lower cost units).
2 Likes
Thank you everyone for all your help.
I am delighted with this “Illumn” company and received my batteries order from them two days ago and was very impressed. The batteries came in cases, a delightful surprise. Order arrived 3 days before promised, and thanks to the recommendation of that “Mooch” guy on the inter-webs, I promptly took out my chef sharpie and labeled them with numbers to “marry” them for all eternity. 'Twas an excellent purchasing experience.
And a successful learning expedition, all gleaned in just a couple days from you fine folks and those you recommended, from this simple question on this post.
Now my mods are “hitting like a truckload of dildos” as Rip would say.
8 Likes