I find this very sound reasoning since oxygen is key to oxidation. If the last bottle has more oxygen then the rest But seems like the amount of oxygen difference would be little…
Not so much UV from the sunlight but actual heating up the first bottle since it is closest to the WARMED UP door which is exposed to the sunlight. All other bottles are insulated by the bottle in front of it. This is a possibility too I feel. More heat, more oxidation…
Some around here quicken steep by heat. UC with heat, Hot rice, put in a hot car, even put in the microwave. Yes, the sun would speed up steep…
If the nicotine was added later then it would not darken much or not at all depending on the juice. I blend for lots of people. All my flavors are blended at 0mg, 6mg, 12mg, 18mg. Though some flavors never darken no matter the steep time or nicotine value, those that do change in color have more drastic change the higher the nicotine value. Some juices will be clear at 0mg but at 18mg nic it would actually have color…
If the last bottle poured is in the front and closest to the door, I would guess greater heat is your culprit…
Hehe, I could argue it either way. I wasn’t trying to say I was right, just my gut feel. But again, I could argue passionately for either.
Sunlight, if it’s UV getting in, is one hell of a promoter of oxidization…that’s why beers in green bottles tend to taste like skunk. . .mostly why anyway.
Interesting little puzzle you’ve got there. I can’t wait to find out the real reason.
HM didn’t even think of this comparison and yes this is exactly why they do develop that skunky flavor. Notice the corona in a brown bottle over the clear. And with using beer as the comparison for this exposure to UV doesn’t have to be long, So yes this def could be another factor or the reasoning behind the change. Those bottles towards the front would receive more exposure when opening the door.
Idk what effect this would have on liquid but id say lets experiment… Dark now so I’m going to mix something and put half away in the box, thats on shelf, thats covered by fabric. The other I will leave out where it will be hit by the sun tomorrow. When I get home ill add that bottle to the box and see how the color compares later.
I made a bottle of this blueberry cake flavor, tasted like breakfast in a bottle had to mix again. The next batch I noticed developed in color with intensity… Made ANOTHER bottle and waited for that color that never occurred but after awhile I tried and flavor was the same… I’ve been scratching my head about what I did to that one bottle BUT with this discussion its very well possible exposure to the sun was the culprit.
My test was 10ml and didn’t last long, the second was 30ml that I brought with me for a couple days, it then went back in the box so I wouldn’t vape it all up, and that third one went straight to the box after mixing…
I’ll post the results of the UV exposure as I go, And as they steep… Happy mixing everyone!
And how many of you made juice for Christmas? I just broke down and tried one of mine since its getting so close to the day haha blueberry cinnamon swirl heaven!
I am leaning toward more bubbles in the juice. That last bottle was the most frothy. The door was rarely opened more than a few minutes. Ine day I shook like 60 bottles of juice. So it was open for a few minutes.
I use LED bulbs in my vape room ceiling fan. The closet is incandescent. I have no idear if this would have anything to do with it. Just thought I would mention it.
Since noticing this I moved the darkest bottle to the back. Lets go see what has happened since starting this thred… brb
Ok, I pulled the bottles in question out and snapped a pic…
The bottles on the far left of each row were in front. Now they are in the back. The bottles of the right of each row have been in the front and no change.
I’m with you. I said I could argue passionately for either way so here is my explanation. The frothier portion of the mix had a lower density and was on top at the end of mixing. You being a careful and clearly very anal CNC machinist (there is only one kind LOL) poured slowly and carefully which allowed the denser, less aerated fluid to slip out from underneath the lighter, frothy stuff. The lighter stuff has a majority of the oxygen and so it oxidized more.
Like most insights this brings about more questions. I really wonder what concentration of Nic is in each bottle now.
Love the updated avatar. That is the way I imagine santa.
I don’t have any testing supplies to test the nic level. I guess I need to get me some before I let this juice go. Got any recommendations?
I know it was mixed well when poured. I usually let things settle a bit more before bottling. I was actually thinking of ordering some stoppers for my various flasks so I can just steep in the flask then bottle. But my Wizard labs order came in nice 4oz bottles so when they are empty I will probably just use them to steep my larger batches. Usually, when I get something I really like I mix a 250ml batch so I can give samples to friends. So I would need 8oz bottles or just use two of these 4oz ones.
You are 100% correct that, Hallertau, particularly the mittelfruh variety, does have a skunk character. But, not all skunky beers use hellertau and it’s the oxidisation of the hop resins, I believe, that cause the skunkiness.
Obviously being familiar with beer, “Lightstuck” is a term you’ve probably heard, and it can happen to any beer irrespective of the hops used I can make a beer made entirely with fuggles or kent goldings taste skunky if I stick it in the sun. From my understanding the UV accelerates the oxidization, although I should look up on the exact chemical pathway for this. My hunch is it would break down the resin organics and make them prone to oxidiazation. . .I doubt that it would ionize the oxygen, but my hunches are wrong all the time.
Temp cycling a beer can give similar results as setting it in the sun. I do wonder about that for the folks that USC/rice cook/microwave their juices to accelerate steeping.
I would pour all those bottles back in one bottle, shake it up again, let it settle and then divide it up a second time. Saves testing the nicotine level in each of them
My bad your right, oxidization of the hops via uv causes the “skunk” to intensify, but there would be no skunk at all without the Hops. Thank you for the clarification.
I don’t bottle my brew, but “keg it” my lagers still have the “skunk” profile via multi dry hopping and cold crashing.
Hey man, you are on ELR. There isn’t a “my bad.” This is one big collaboration, not a competition. I love it. I see you’ve been a member for awhile, but welcome all the same.
No, I could tell you knew what you were talking about when you didnt just say “hops,” you said the right hops. I used to really love Hellertau, but I really cant dig the skunk anymore. Yeah I have kegged for years now but I live in the northeast now and beer is so good, available, and cheap that I dont even bother brewing anymore. . .still have the kegerator and several kilobucks in brewing equipment. (Switchback Pal Ale, Smuttynose Old Brown Dog, and Woodstock Pigs Ear are on tap. I leave a tap for homemade soda and seltzer.
Interesting comment that the beer would not get skunky without the hops. I’ve never thought of it that way, but I’m sure that you are right. You never get a skunky malto goya do you?
Reviving this because I just tested these bottles of juice. The ones that turned very dark were completely unvapable. Almost as if all of the nicotine was in those darker bottles. Which is very very strange because these batches were frothed to a bubbly goo then poured into the bottles. I always shake the hell out of my nicotine before dispensing too. So I am at a complete loss. The bottles that did not darken are fine and very tasty. So any other thoughts?
Can you give a recap of the entire mixing, accelerated steeping process you used including percentages of PG, VG, how you diluted the nic from what concentration and the composition of the base nic?
I feel there is a very important lesson here. Would really like to see a %nic test done on the bottles to confirm. Also, can you link or insert the recipe? I think some flavors are incompatible. I am 0% nic and had a huckleberry/hibiscus that I loved as SnV. But, as time went on it started giving me headaches. But I’d still vape it cause it tasted good. It eventually just became an acidic fire on my lungs and I had to pour it out.
I mixed at 30/70 and 3mg nicotine. I don’t dilute my nicotine which is 100mg nic - 100% VG base from Heartland Vapes.
All ingredients were added to the flask on the scale. I always work the recipe from top to bottom. So the nicotine first, then the PG (I always swirl the PG and nic so the thick nicotine isn’t stuck to the bottom of the flask. Then I added the VG and the flavorings in order. After that I set the flask in a 125 degree bath to thin the mixture for stirring. Then I hit it with the hobby paint mixer until frothed and the mixture is all bubbles with no visible liquid.
Then I got the bottles all ready and poured into bottles. So the mixture didn’t really have time to sit before being bottled.
I should add this is the second time I have mixed this recipe. And all other bottles turned out fine except for the bottles that darkened. I am vaping some of the clearer bottle right now on my dripper and it is fine.
Do you mean bad taste, harsh TH, both, or something else?
Reading back thru the account of events, I have no idea what could be going on here. They really shouldn’t have oxidized so quickly from sunlight hitting them while a closet door was briefly opened. And my froth theory was pretty sketchy too.
And you had moved the darker bottles to the back of the closet right?
Yeah, they were moved around. None of the other bottles turned that color. The throat hit was stellar. Just like the 24mg Black Cherry e-juice sample I was sent from a supplier when I first bought some of my flavorings. Very harsh. And very peppery. I haven’t even tried the other recipe that I made the same day that had one bottle do the same exact thing. If I had a nicotine test kit I would test it. If anyone wants me to send them the bottle to test it I would be more than happy to do so.
Undiluted 100mg seems a bit iffy to me. I don’t know how common it is to do that, just seems a little scary for small batches.
I’m thinking it had to be the hot, frothy part. Maybe it somehow got more nic too, like even though it frothed up it stll didn’t mix? But @zigz called it way back with more oxygen in the frothy part maybe. Either that, or maybe some flavors react with concentrated nic and form something unholy and low-density. TBH, I don’t like that method. Mixing everything in concentrated form could just behave strangely. I dunno, I had a bottle of 12M HCL blow up on me in Chem class, so I prefer dilutions if possible.
Again though, maybe that’s the common way folks use concentrated nic. My base nic is 18mg/ml. . .I know, I know.
