Something I have been thinking about for ages now, I have a plethora of tanks in my arsenal and sure enough some give amazing flavour, some give amazing clouds, some give both and some give neither particularly. I get the more clouds part, that’s essentially just a better airflow but the flavour part has me stumped, I mean they all do more or less the same thing…air in, past the coils, air and vape out, so what’s the science??..why are some better than others??..WHERE DOES THE FLAVOUR GO! …and can this question ACTUALLY be answered??
I challenge the ELR wizards @ozo@BoDarc@Beaufort_Batches and @Pro_Vapes and whoever else I have forgotten to clear this up for me.
‘some get it right, some don’t’ isn’t going to cut it, I need to understand
but i did a lot of learning, reading & researching, side-by-side testing for months, and took notes, on tanks when i started building my own coils (chasing the best flavor)
some of what i learnt was, the design of the evaporation chamber makes a huge difference, it needs to be small enough to concentrate the flavor the coils evaporate, but not too small that the vapor actually condenses - the chimney shouldn’t be too long, otherwise, vapor will condense on the inner walls - all this is “flavor deficiencies” - example, the TFv4 mini RBA produced the best flavor for a single coil for me (the chamber is significantly long making good room to condense the flavor before you pull) - the Goblin Mini had a small deck/chamber design and a very short chimney, a combination that caused it to be the vest flavor RTA when it came out in spite of bottom screw fill and other annoyances.
airflow channel design also makes a difference, there’s so much to say about airflow and how it affects the produced flavor. air must flow over maximum area of the coil then up to the chimney - no blind spots (coil not getting air, or too much air not meeting evaporation surface - both will kill the flavor) - no unnecessary turbulences or obstacles even before the air gets into the tank (where vapor can condensate on, flavor lost, or if before the coil, the air can carry unnecessary smells, or heats up too early) - example, the original Crius and Griffin achieved that. also the RDTAs like the Aromamizer then supreme - also too much airflow will completely kill the flavor - oh, and we didn’t talk about the wicking and juice channel set up to allow an always-ready wick even with high VG juices…
there are so many other factors, i’m sure others will add valuable notes, after so many months of testing, you can actually tell if a tank will produce a good flavor by looking at its design before you buy it.
great answer, thank’s @TheFlavorSeeker, your points pretty much covered every internal argument I had with myself about this, every time I thought I had it, I discovered an exception with another tank, The TVF8 for example, I know the general consensus is that it is amazing for volume but sacrifices flavour to get there, I do not find this to be the case, but surely there comes a point where as you have so much clouds that you are bound to increase the flavour? this is my finding with it. The aromomizer supreme has amazing flavour but less clouds, the griffin 25 which appears to be roughly the same internal size and with regards to air volume in/air channels/air and vape out is similar suffers with flavour but has slightly above average clouds…I kinda guessed there wasn’t a definitive mathematical answer because if there was then everyone would do it and we would all only ever need one tank, but I was intrigued to see if others such as yourself had actually put in the wrench work in order to discover what the answer is.
Thanks again for you insight
Yup. I agree with What has been said. Chamber size, chimney length, airflow, and build deck.
I also believe there is, at least for me, there is a lot of emphasis on the coil build. Choosing which coil to put in the build deck (simple round, Clapton, zipper monkey balls, ect). Then decieding by then < millimeter how close to place the coil to the posts vs to the airflow. Then on horizontal air slots decieding if the coil should be perfectly even with the airflow or just a weeeee but raised. Then wicking, screw up on wicking the coil and the flavor is off.
So I more focus on coil build. That is why I am stumped on my aromamizer v1. I’ve tried a vertical coil, horizontal, 26g ss316 round wire build (ant fit a 24g), tried a simple kanthol A1 build and kanthol Clapton builds…none have worked. I can taste the kanthol, the ss316 I think isn’t right for the chamber, and so on. Monday I have 28g wire coming in…I hope it works…gonna toss in a vertical and horizontal builds in and hope they work.
Beyond that. As for clouds bro clouds and those deep direct lung hits I think there isn’t that much flavor because becuase you using you lungs as the flavor chamber and their not designed to do that. That’s why I don’t direct lung hit. Sitting on two of my rda’s I’m rocking dual 24g ss316l 8 wrap (might be 9) spaced coils ohm around 0.21. They hit hard on the ipv5, flavor is great (as good as the Clapton ss316 I have). But I’m sure it’s funny to watch me do the “new age” MTL hit.
more air = less flavour (lots of other factors involved that I won’t go into)
I believe there is a sweet spot for all tanks / devices.
I run a griffin 25 RTA single coil @ 25w im vaping PRY4-U by ENYAWREKLAW 70/30
If I inhale quickly I get more airflow which leads to a lack of flavour, however a slow steady draw with top airflow off and bottom airflow half open gives me a ton of flavour and pretty decent clouds.
My wife has a MTL aspire BVC tank running tiny 1.8ohm coils, airflow is super restricted, she runs it at 6-7w with the PRY4-U as a 60/40, the flavour I get from that is amazing.
When you draw in are you just taking it straight to your lung or over your tongue?
If your tongue isn’t getting the vapour on the way in, by the time it comes back out the flavour is halved???
@Chrispdx, i gave up on the Aromamizer v1 - after being so excited about it and found i’m trying too hard to convince myself with different builds that “now i figured it out” - i don’t know maybe the one i got is a clone. I tried all shape and forms of builds, vertical, horizontal…etc. honestly the best flavor i got from it is when i put a single horizontal build and split the wick to block all 4 juice holes - this made me think the internal design for some reason doesn’t like the dual build. (it made sense that vertical won’t be good given the airflow is not well aligned, and a single between-posts won’t work since air will be hitting the wick at the wrong place) - some folks said the 3ml version is better because it’s not “too deep” so you get better flavor with the shorter chimney
the Aromamizer Supreme is a different story. it’s a top favorite i believe the design addressed the issue. thing is, you absolutely need to have a good “flavor-tank” then the right build for it. the coil itself is not enough if the tank is not a “flavor design”
from a coiling standpoint, and to my own taste, the smaller gauge/ID the better for me. i get the best flavor from a 28/34 SS clapron on 2.3mm ID (or less) - to me, its such a concentrated heat hitting the right amount of wick/juice - even though some of the newer tanks have bigger build decks, i still find this to be my sweet-spot. every time i build bigger coils and think i’ll be “flavor-happy’er”, i go back to the smaller builds again.
The “magic” you are speaking of comes from how close the air flow is over the coil and how soon it hits your mouth. This is why a dripper ( especially the velocity design ) and dripper tanks give better flavor.
Some tanks have too much air flow and produce large volumes of vapor but this trades off in flavor. Why? Because it spreads out the vapor in air volume thus reducing the flavor “inside” the mist. This is my theory and the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me, but there may be more to it than that.
A more restrictive airflow keeps the vapor dense thus allowing the vapor to have more flavor inside the vapor. It’s in balance between air, temperature and where the air meets the coil and of course the coil build and a good wicking as well.
A good temperature control device plus a good build will deliver better results because many flavors are affected in performance by heat.
It’s also depends a great deal in finding the right col build that better suits or delivers that satisfying draw you desire. My preference build and tank may not suit
yours but I will share it with you.
My favorite flavor dripping tank is a Kennedy Velosity style tank with either an SS build at .5 ohms or a TI TC build at .2 to .15ohms. This will certainly drain batteries but is one reason why I have so many batteries and chargers. I never give up flavor quality in exchange for anything.
My favorite dripper tank is the Aromamizer built TI at .15 ohms. For me, nothing out there beats it and it produces flavor and flavor shifts in layered recipes where other tanks leave flavors missing. This tank is used daily and I have many of them. I like the Pharaoh as well but it does not quite do what the Aromamizer does for me.
My favorite RTA is the VCMT and I have many of these both 25mm and 30mm. This easy to build tank gives me a balance between vapor production and flavor. Mostly due to the velocity style airflow and how I build the coil for myself.
Tanks are much like e-liquids, build them till you find the epic build for yourself. As you found that last tweak in an awesome e-liquid you were working on, the same can be said for building tanks. At least in my experience.
great replies by all thank’s fellas, those are the kinds of things I was looking for, I’ll be looking at my arsenal a little differently now, I do DTL all the time, I stopped MTL when I came off ‘pens’ but it makes sense to get more flavour that way, I like my clouds though…hell I like my flavour AND my clouds obviously!..I think I actually just want my cake and eat it also …or at least vape it.
It makes sense as to why the Theorem is really good flavour as it’s quite small, mouth is close to the coil, drip tip is narrow and single coil, it confirms everything you’re saying…yet…I also get great flavour AND immense clouds from the TFV8…again…there’s my exception…this is what keeps me coming back to the same question.
As mentioned by others the airflow seems to make a big difference. My best tasting tank is the iSub Apex and the airflow is very restricted compared to a Cleito or a Crown. But the iSub is also my only tank which has the wick on the inside of the coil. Crown and Cleito have the wicks around the coils. Could that make a difference?
I’ve been looking at the 3 tanks I use the most, The TFV8, Aromomizer supreme and the Griffin 25, the point that the flavour is increased the less distance the vapour has to travel from the coil to your mouth is probably the driving factor in designers coming up with the ‘Limitless’ kind of RDTA, fluid at the bottom, coil at the top,(also squonking) I have one of these along with the Theorem and the Avocado (haven’t tried that one yet though) and with me personally I find I get dry hits more if I chain them, I would imagine because they don’t have gravity on their side when it comes to juice getting into the coil, they rely on the juice bleeding up through the wick, I know most tanks feed from the bottom but at least they have the pressure of the liquid on top pushing it down and up into the coil housing?..so…I was just wondering…and bare with me I’m just being flighty here…what if someone came up with a sideways tank? to fit along the top of some box mods? I say some because obviously not with top controls, the distance between coil and mouth would be minimal like a dripper and the fluid would be fed via gravity, this would produce amazing flavour and a practical tank…just …not… a universal one…
I should never design anything …ever…
Yes, i was referring to stock coils of these 3 tanks. The main difference between the iSub Apex and the other 2 (apart from the airflow) is the wick which is on the inside of the coil like on most RDA builds. I think the difference in flavor can’t just be explained with the airflow.
Just started with RDAs and still experimenting. I haven’t achieved a coil build i was really happy with yet. Something is always wrong and i rebuild it after 15 hits. Just doing 24AWG single coils at the moment. None of my friends are using RDAs so it’s all trial and error.
Looking to rebuild stock coils, too just to save some money and perhaps to use a different wire. Plenty of stuff on youtube so I’ll give it a go when there are enough old coils to work with.
the supreme is on straight forward SS claptons, quite fine, can’t remember exact guage, prob 6 wraps, ID 2.5 maybe, ohms at 0.19 usually run at around 70w in PM
Cloudbeast on SS 316L Twisted 2 x 28agw 7 wraps 2.5mm ID 0.22ohms around 90w on PM
Griffin on straight SS 316L 26agw 6 wraps spaced, 2.5 ID 0.22ohms 90w in PM
I always use PM, I know I should get more into TC and I have tried it a fair bit, with SS and Ti, I just don’t seem to like it as much, don’t know why, you like what you like you know?
I only have one of the three you mentioned… the Crown. It was a game changer when it was introduced close to a year and a half ago. It’s still relevant in some circles today. Stock coil technology has evolved tremendously since then. IMO it’s more about design and coil material than airflow with stock coils. I’m not very familiar with the current stock coils, but most appear to have the bottom airflow. Just my opinion, but building your own coils open so many options that you’re sure to find a setup that satisfies your vape needs.