Oddly enough when I finished my reply I saw that @Sevencasper had posted almost the same test/example. Adding nic to the first one (no nic) will demonstrate the taste difference.
As you know I’ve quoted FLV many times: The Flavorah Recipe book; (page 15)
“much of what has become known as the “steeping” process by ejuice makers is actually accelerated oxidation of the flavorings caused by the addition of freebase nicotine.”…If nicotine is not added, this undesirable oxidation does not occur and the initial flavoring profile of the recipe will be maintained more consistently over time."…
There is a caveat though. As you observed above
I think many people became accustomed to it and it may very well be what they like. So to each their own. Its DIY. I can say with certainty that shelf life and unaltered taste of the concentrates is way longer. There was a time when I was mixing for locals. Making large batch sizes allowed me, or the vape shop, to add whatever nic they wanted along with no flavor changes or degradation.
I’ve never used the synthetic.
Salts make me sick as hell…crawling on the floor driving the porcelain bus puking sick.
I dont know if it mutes flavor but iv always found the TH to overpower the flavor as the nic gets higher in percent. In that case may be beneficial to move to a salt nic
I’d ask my hubby to try it but he doesn’t like heat.
Maybe when I’ll do the next batch I’ll do some without heat too & see if he can taste a difference.
Oh I just had a thought- hubby tried a new mix the other day & said he loved it and….
I have that same mix with no nic too (I left it steeping longer cause it was a bit under I thought).
I’ll get him to try it when he gets home from work. I hope he’s got some left
I’m not a salt expert but I thought the main reason was that salts enters the blood/brain barrier much quicker than freebase, therefore very helpful to newbie quitters. I’ve heard people say that salts are so smooth but, for me it hits my throat harder than freebase. Idk, go figure
Idk how high the nic has to be to overpower the flavor (I use 3 - 6 mg) but TH is just as much a part of my addiction as inhale/exhale and moving my hands around Just a slight sensation in the throat does it for me.
That hypothesis didn’t apply to me. Coming off cigs I needed around 16-18 mg in my liquid. I didn’t find it too harsh to vape and I could distinguish between different flavors. If not, I probably wouldn’t be vaping and still smoking.
It really depends on the nic. Thats usually the general consensus with commercial juice where it often been sitting on shelves oxidizing for months. We could prob get away with a little higher mg of freebase before it gets unbearably harsh because we are mixing fresh batches.
I was the same and at the same mg. I always put my own nic in though as juice was not available to buy in shops here with nic already in it. At that mg, and with the initial hardware I was using, I found the longer it took me to use the juice after I put the nic in, the less I got taste wise.
Muth was right, this is an interesting old thread and her “non” comments raise good questions. The OP made clear that his questions were about freebase. I think that for most in this thread salts didn’t even exist when we started and he didn’t want to go in that direction because of his supply of freebase.
I started with an aspire pen, some really nasty oxidized nic, and some sickeningly sweet menthol “juice.” Stir in some authoritative commands and prohibitions on “steeping” methods and I had a sure fire recipe for failure. No one could mix that high (18) of mg with that sludge.
So I went online and bought a drawer full of Steam Crave v1’s, (still have them), good nic, wire, flavors etc. My nic quickly went down to 6mg. Still, my mixes kept turning to shit. A month in a dark drawer led to what Muth described as “tasting like pepper” and you could see and smell oxidation in the mix. Long before I developed the GC I was leaving my nic out until the mix was ready to vape.
So the OP had really good advice…@rcleven stated the necessary questions, @Sprkslfly advised him to ignore personalities and test for himself, and @Iv3shf Frank made a couple of comments I’ll focus moire on.
Now I have taken the long way around the barn to make my point because in the past this subject has led to controversy and hostility like few others on the forums. Frank’s use of the term “stabilized” is IMO one of the best descriptions of “steeping” and the process of ejuice mixing I’ve seen. Ask 10 people what steeping consists of and you are liable to get 10 different answers.
While I can describe what is occurring technically by referencing what a chemical solution (our concentrates) is, what a chemical reagent is, and the properties of PG, VG and other solvents, what I think is that the only necessary question is answered by the FLV quote:
“what has become known as the “steeping” process by ejuice makers is actually accelerated oxidation of the flavorings caused by the addition of freebase nicotine.”
Oxidation of the flavorings.…
For the benefit of new mixers, I think advising them to try leaving their nic out and focusing on flavor intensities and recipe ratio’s is possibly one of the most helpful things we can tell them.
Mixing with nicotine should not be a “rule” yet I’ve yet to run across anyone who hasn’t been advised to include it from the beginning. Go online and look at all the praise of color change as showing that steeping has taken place. I say no. Steeping has occurred when solvents of the solution dissolve our VG and the flavor materials bond…infuse, cure, age, meld, or the tons of other terms synonymous with arriving at a finished stable result.
A reagent is a substance that either causes or shows that a chemical reaction has occurred. Often this is shown by color change and sometimes thermal reaction.
A chemical solution is two or more chemicals dissolved in solvent. There are numerous properties but one is that a solution can not be separated by filtering or mechanical means. The air we breathe and the water we drink are solutions. For our purposes the solvents are usually PG and sometimes VG, water, alcohol and others determined by the flavorist/chemist. The solute[s} are the dissolved flavoring components.
I regard the flavoring solution and nicotine solution as separate components.
Just a slight sensation in the throat does it for me.