I tried upping my nic for mtl. I took an in your face tobacco recipe and cranked it up to 6,8 and 12mg. At 8 and 12 I could not hardly recognize what it was and at 6 it was muted but barely recognizable. So I did mix a couple SFT’s with similar results.
So my question really is, has anyone actually done any testing to see if the flavor thresholds change with higher nic along with mix %?
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Going to need a little more information to answer your question. What’s the recipe? What device are using to vape?
Was the juice all mixed at once and adding the nic base or was it mixed three separate times? What’s the base of the nicotine?
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The recipe(s) actually do not matter in this case as I also did some comparison SFT’s at my highest levels for un said flavors.
The real question is has anyone tested to see how higher nic affects flavor % and thresholds.
For example flavor X threshold is at 3% at 3mg nic. Any more and it goes off into a weird place.
Now, will the same flavor at 8mg nic also share the 3% threshold or will it change with the higher nic?
I can test it but flavor testing is a long tedious process the way I do things considering Im working 70 plus hrs a week . So it would be truly helpful if anybody out there has done this!
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Everything I asked matters. The words “in your face” is a clue.
Nic at 54mg/ml is common in low wattage pods. Doesn’t affect flavor. Put that same mix in RDA/RTA it will knock your socks off.
Everything needs to be taken in context.
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My apologies @rcleven I didn’t mean to be so dismissive.
The juice was real but merely an example leading to my real question. After doing a few SFT’s I found the same thing.
I am interested in changing the way I vape. I wish to move to mtl from rl but I will have to jack up the nic for me to be successful . Which also means I may have to retest all my flavors… a daunting task for someone who ladder tests.
If I were to have to retest I wouldnt even have a clue where to start. So anyone having gone down this road could really help.
For all I know there maybe nothing there to find.
Barring any help from you guys it will be like starting all over.
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My results were based on Dwarv FL, Kfun Prime, Kfun5, and Project X RTA with one hole.
28g 1.3 to 1.4 ohms. And a couple of 29g at 1.6ish.
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I normally vape ~48watts on a .3Ω coil at 4mg/ml. I mix that @500ml’s at a time but due to complaints about fogging up interior windows, I have increased by 6mg/ml (nic salt) to a total of 10mg/ml hybrid. I can taste no difference and I get fewer window complaints. This is with a light Honeysuckle and cream recipe.
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Thanks @big_vape. I have a pretty large supply of freebase nic. And I am not letting it get low due to the uncertaint future.
I never jumped on the salts because I remember it being said that it was no easier on our flavors than freebase and was a better choice for extremely high nic levels.
This could be wrong Idk as I heard this as salts were just becoming a thing in vaping.
I would reconsider it if I was misinformed.
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I do not typically use nic salts and while I started at 12mg/ml freebase 6 years ago, I’m down to 4mg/ml now. For me that hybrid mix is just to get my nic fix with fewer puffs. I do read that some users do not do well with nic salts. I am no judge at all for nic salts.
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Why do you need to increase nicotine intake to be successful? RL gives you the option to go MTL or DTL.
A good clean nicotine should not effect the flavor. Since you are using free base high nicotine content will effect throat and lung hit ( as my 54mg/ml example above ). With free base I have used as high as 18mg/ml MTL without Ill effects. When I switched to DTL I went to 6mg/ml. The nicotine was enough to replace a two pack a day habit. The throat and lung hit were also sufficient.
Also concider how you vape as far as consumption.
If your body’s telling you you need more nicotine you can vape more.
I can’t vape Salts because my lungs tighten up but I’m in the outlier. I probably vape in the 18-20 ml range a day.
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Yes.
It’s my opinion that the better mixers have all done empirical testing at some point.
(meaning, they take in what they read, but they also verify it, methodically, and independently [read as: on their own].
Just like the rest of the internet, you can’t rely solely on what you read (unless it’s strictly for entertainment value).
Too many simply accept what they’re told by “established personalities”, and don’t verify.
Kudos for actually DOING your homework, and learning more!!! 
We need more like you!
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Thanks sprks, you know I like to test.
I did read around a little. We all know that upping the nic dilutes flavor. The thing is I’ve found lots of “You have to dial it up a bit” and “Use the calculator tool to up it” but nowhere do I find where anyone has actually tested to see the real effects on flavors and how to adjust to various nic levels.
Im praying someone has cuz thats a lotta work and I don’t have time to go down that rabbit hole.
And partly because I’m skeered of the dark from being down too freakin many rabbit holes 
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Going from DTL to MTL, definitely changes the nic levels, on MTL, you generally have to go on lower power, smaller air holes, tighter draw, that decreases the nic “effect” so you have to increase the nic.
Nicotine oxidizes fast, so it changes the final taste in no time, for better? For worst? Lots of debates on the matter, because it involves the final result. how?
Generally on tobaccos I like to increase the nic for a truer taste, I usually vape 2-3 mg, on tobaccos might go up to 4-5%. Latakias, Basma, Orientals and cigars are the ones that will benefit, that means stronger taste tobaccos, Black Cavendish, Kentucky, Virginia, might suffer a bit with high nic levels.
But the same goes with other flavours, lighter or delicate flavours will always suffer with higher nic levels, that’s why the “dial it up a bit” adaptions you saw around.
Does it mute flavours? No it doesn’t, but it does change the perception, consider that you are increasing the PH level, desirable in some cases, in some cases not so.
Increasing the nic, we’re pushing the liquid on an alkaline zone, that usually means harsher throat hit, IMHO, PH levels are important in our creations.
Unfortunately it’s ages I don’t go above 5mg, from my point of view anything above 10-12 and you’re in a dangerous zone, but it’s a personal opinion based on my tests, after 15mg I have to slightly change the percentages.
How pure is the nicotine you’re using? Where is it made? That’s another factor that’s not usually considered, we just “get used to it” but purity changes the final result, there are stronger nicotines, no doubt, that on lower levels will be barely noticeable, on higher levels it increases exponentially, remember the PH bit…
Is it PG based or VG based? What could be considered muting, might just be: steeping or rather, stabilization, we need time, too true on NETs, the point is that I like my Latakia with a stronger incense note, rather then a sweeter one that will have when stabilized, an high level nic will lower the perception.
Don’t underestimate the fact that going from DTL or Flavour chasing to MTL you have to increase the flavour percentage, same as going from mesh wick to cotton wick, or from MTL to PODs.
Of course we did Sparky… 
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I have a reaction to nicsalts also. I sneeze like crazy. I got a small bottle and it was brutal
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one draw of nic salts and I feel like an elephant is on my chest. sneezing too,
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This was an interesting topic and I won’t throw my 2 cents in because it already has been addressed. I did want to mention the quality of the nic but it was mentioned. The first thing I noticed when I started mixing was just that. Friends had sent me their own creations that I thought tasted like pepper due to the nic being oxidized. You could see it in the color (and smell it). They thought nothing of it. I was using nic that was clean enough to not even be noticed in the flavor. To each his own. I use a low nic pct anyway, 3 mg in most and sometimes 6 mg in a tobacco mix (MTL)
I’m glad you got your question answered.
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Am I being paged…or just tempted? 
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I would be interested in your thoughts, I have learnt a lot from your other contributions.
I find my mixes have changed from when I was using 18mg to my current 1mg. I do still mix higher percentages than DL recipes, but that is more about my taste buds. When I was using 18mg, my total flavouring was around 20 to 25 percent and as I dropped I found I didn’t need them to be as high. Now, most of my mixes are under 15% total flavour and I can taste them better…
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Thanks for asking. @muth and I have been having a private conversation about these subjects so I was kind of poking her in fun for a response. 
I had similar experiences or worse concerning oxidized nic in the beginning. Will it affect flavors. Absolutely yes. Clean nic…it can. I try to never agitate or expose nic to heat or air. Nicotine is an extract dissolved and diluted in solvents…a solution… and for safety it is a homogeneous mixture. It is sufficient to disperse it through our mixes.
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IMO @rcleven pointed to the necessary questions and @Iv3shf Frank pretty well covered all the bases:
[quote=“Iv3shf, post:13, topic:262715”]
How pure is the nicotine you’re using? Where is it made? That’s another factor that’s not usually considered, we just “get used to it” but purity changes the final result, there are stronger nicotines, no doubt, that on lower levels will be barely noticeable,
So IMO the OP needs to determine his flavor ratio’s for MTL mixing and then adjust his recipes. It shouldn’t take much testing.
A test :
Make 2 identical mixes, one with nic added and the other without. Wait whatever length of time suited to your personal needs but preferably 3 or 4 weeks. Sample both. Add nic to the second. Sample both. I’d be very interested in hearing your results.
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That an interesting test. When I make large batches I don’t add nic to them because Idk how long they’ll be sitting around. Can you imagine spoiling 300 MLS of juice because the nic started to turn? I add it as I go. One of the last times I bought commercial juice it was very dark and had “that” smell to it. There was no date on the bottle which pissed me off but I didn’t need one to tell me they were selling expired eliquid. Btw, the synthetic nic has a longer shelf life.
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