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A PUBLIC and Civil Discussion on the Rules


#205

You are welcome and thank you.


#206

I vote to keep it clean and keep the rules simple.


#207

What works for me is “I read what I like and don’t what I don’t”. There are some threads I stay away from, simply because it “isn’t my thing”. Perhaps I miss out on some important or humorous matter within those threads, but that is my choice and as long as I have that choice, I’m OK with it. I do acknowledge that my skin is getting more leathery with each sunset and I don’t get offended easily, just as much as there are good people whose tolerance for “bawdy” or “salty” language is different from my own, and I respect that. Regarding sexual or graphic images, the internet is full of that stuff and I can go anywhere on the World Wide Web and find it in a matter of seconds. That is not why I come to ELR. If there are threads that contain that (and most are label as such), I simply don’t enter. Simple.
So what to do? Not sure. I’m a firm believer in self governance but I know that this is not the answer as we all believe and behave in different manners. Whatever the outcome, I hope that this remains the best site on the net. If my opinion changes, I will simply move on with no fuss, no muss and no chips on the shoulder.

Good luck trying to figure it all out. I sincerely mean that as I know it isn’t easy.


#208

I start hearing about rules, it concerns me. I really don’t see a point. Its a very slippery icy slope down the rabbit hole before this forum is run into the ground like so many other forums have been.

Should there be some sort of way to flag a thread/post/image as NC-17 and some sort of “click to view” feature shade the image to protect the innocent? Sure.
Should any imagery or hyperlink that is NC-17 be required to be flagged by its author? Sure.
Should there be a warning and/or penalty if that isn’t done? Sure.
If a post threatens the physical safety of a member or others, should it’s author be sanctioned? Sure.
Do people that are butthurt because someone told them how dumb they are need protection? No
Should we prevent people from derailing threads? Somewhat I think, and this is a topic I’ll go into at length.

Derailing threads to me comes in 2 forms.

One is where someone gets carried away with explaining how big their whatever is and how awesome they feel about it in someone else’s thread. Thats not cool, and it should be avoided. Penalized? Perhaps not, unless a specific user is habitual with it. Mod should perhaps move the discussion of the amazing whatever to a new thread and remind the user not to derail threads.

However, I frequently see another form of derailing that drives me nuts. I will see a new user with a typical question have their thread immediately derailed with some links to other threads on similar topics. This is typically done by a specific person who I wont name, and to me it is really obnoxious. I get that this is the easy way, and that there is a wealth of good information in those core threads, but I also think it makes new members feel dismissed. For every good post in these great reference threads, there are 3-5 posts that are outdated, inaccurate or flat out wrong. The idea that a person cannot ask their question without being told to stfu and rtfm is obtuse. Keep in mind that when a person creates a thread, the forum automatically asks them if any of these other threads might be helpful, and 9 times in 10 you are linking them the same threads they didn’t accept the first time. Mixing is intimidating at first and some people are going to need a little hand holding to get there. If the only thing you have respond with is rtfm, you should be reminded to give a considered, helpful response that isn’t just a bunch of links. Its fine to put those at the end of your comment I think, but just posting links the person has likely already seen is about as unhelpful as can be. Mod should be watchful of these posts too and flat out delete them. They should be treated the same by Mod as any other derailing. If we need someone to do this, I’m sure we could have a robot that watches for threads created by users <30 days old and immediately responds with the links to the appropriate threads. We could just send an automatic message to new users with the top 10 or 20 “must read” threads when they create their account.


#209

I tried to keep it to just the one topic but of course they cross over. This was to be my next moment of self inflicted pain but you say it perfectly, jmak. We are here to help new mixers, keep the ego in check when trying to help someone and if you are going to help someone then do so. A bunch of quick links probably arent the best way.

PS. Is it me? I know i have done this in chat but i have followed some of the folks back to help out in PMs. But more times than not i dont. This is a good reminder to all of us that we were intimidated too when we first started.


#210

When I first started mixing I always came here to read all the great advice that had been posted to help in my journey of becoming a better mixer. The recipe & calculator site is still my go to tool and I feel it always will be. I had never been a active member on any forum. I figured I would give it a try and started becoming more active on the forum. What I found is a great group of people who loved mixing, loved helping others become better mixers, and cared for one another beyond just mixing. Members showing help to other members monetarily or with words to show support. This is what drew me in. I did not feel as intimidatied trying to become a part of the community as I did with other DIY groups. A lot of other large mixing circles that I found were clicky and full of unnecessary childish drama. ELR had a more humble feeling where everyone was just helping everyone and having a good time. I felt I could ask questions about mixing without fear of being thought of as stupid, and felt I could voice an opinion without being dismissed as a noob who doesn’t know anything. I still feel that way. I have though, seen simple questions or opinions turn into huge pissing matches between people. That I could live without and could be taken care of thru PM between the said people. Debate is one thing, but when something turns into a out right argument it can be a turn off IMO. Topics being derailed never made me mad, but it was a distraction from what I was looking for. I think that change is nice. “Adult” posts, topics , or reviews never bother me. That being said I don’t get offended easily, but the world we live in now is far from my level of tolerance. IMO the restrictions on such content will make the forum more appealing to a larger group and will give the forum a more professional look and feel. The other side of that coin will make the forum less playful and edgy for some. There should be a place for that. Those who do not want to see or be a part of that, just stay away from that place. The fact that Admins even care to hear what members think about change speaks volumes to me. Other group admins just do and if you voice an opinion or don’t like it. You are “politely” told to piss off and then proceed to drag you through the mud and lay you on a bed of nails. As the group grows changes are going to be inevitable. The difficulty is how to include those who vape naked dipped in butter watching porn and those who vape wearing a business suit flying in a private jet listening to NPR. I do not envy the Admins or the MODs who will oversee and regulate this. Hopefully we can all find some common ground and get back to focusing on how to create that perfect blue raspberry, finding a awesome cherry flavor, how to get that real sour flavor, great recipes without steeping, helping new mixers become great mixers, and helping each other.


#211

Id just like to say that i am glad you joined us and felt at ease in doing so. It feels good to hear such a thing because so many of us love to help other people.


#212

Hey man. I am just one guy with his own opinion. Just wanted to share my experience.


#213

Id like to address this for a quick moment. Im married and have a life, in fact i have a wife who needed to go to the doctor with an ear infection today. Every single spare moment was spent right in front of this nerd box dealing with the issues our community is having problems with. (She said it would be ok). I dont get paid, none of us do. I do this because i genuinely care about not just this place but the people here too.

And it isnt just this thread, it still spilled over into PMs despite asking it not happen tonight. And yet im here. Im not sure what more that i can do to show people i am taking everyone seriously. Yet ive been called some crappy stuff over the last few days, that just isnt right…

Im not looking for apologies nor sympathy, i just want people to understand that we do this because we love this community.

Im going to say one last thing here, yeah right… Thank you from the bottom of my heart, @JoJo and @daath. I dont know how you guys juggled all of this and your normal lives but i am really thankful that you did because we are still here. Ill do my best and when that aint good enough ill do the best of somebody else.


#214

Never doubted that for a second. I’m grateful for the work you moderators do, and sorry for the abuse you have gotten and will inevitably get in the future. Just know that you all are far more appreciated than not.


#215

@daath
I know what I’ve quoted was the point of origin, and then shortly after (the post Ken summed up) you basically left out the part about the image…

But Lars I BEG YOU to reconsider this particular age reference/aspect, as IMO it’s in direct contravention to everything else, that has basically been agreed to by the majority.

For instance:

Innuendo, adult humor, and other subject matter notwithstanding.

If everything has to be acceptable in front of an 8 year old, then the majority of subject matter in ELR is unacceptable IMO. Because they damned sure shouldn’t be discussing smoking, tobacco use, drugs, sex, or much outside of Barney, and “Hi, my name’s xxxxxx, what’s yours?! Where do you go to school? What music do you like?” at that age.

Regardless, my point being, because you’ve said it, it’s “rightfully” being regarded as “what goes”, by those you put in place. I just want to allow an opportunity for clarification. Either from you, or by us (in our understanding).

If things get relegated down to “what’s acceptable for an 8 year old” , that would genuinely blow my mind.


#216

I am going to add my thoughts here and now. The summary Ken has listed as a temporary guideline until anything is official, is what I feel, to be an excellent compromise. It still keeps ELR the place we love, but prevents the stuff that has gotten out of hand.

When I was asked to be a moderator, my initial feeling was “Anything for ELR!”. However, I had conflicting views with what seemed to be some of the new rule enforcement. I am not easily offended, I find innuendos, tongue-in-cheek references, and adult humor entertaining. But, only in the places where they belong, without going overboard in vaping related threads. I think that @CallMeTut, @VapeyMama, @SthrnMixer @Nappen @Cutlass92 and @Molly_Mcghee are people who have seen me post things where it’s allowed, or heard me in voice chat being myself. (These are people who just come to the top of my mind as “not easily offended”). Other people may find offensive, if I have offended you, I apologize. I try to keep any adult content in the Saloon, PMs and Discord, but sometimes there have been slip-ups in public conversation, just in writing. We all slip-up.

I had to decide which was more important to me, my internet home and the people I met here, who have become real friends…but we’ve never even met. Or, agree to some type of changes to prevent this spiraling completely out of control. I put aside my personal feelings about mature content to make this the place similar to how it was when I first joined. I realized so much had changed and gotten out of hand, I didn’t realize how big of an issue it was for so many of the members! I was saddened to hear that people felt unwelcome and afraid to post because of lewd, or overwhelming numbers of derailing posts in common vaping topic threads. I was sad that wonderful members I look up to stopped being active. And I want more than anything to fix that by enforcing the rules, but still having fun.

I am pleasantly surprised that this seems to not be nearly as big of a change as I thought it would be! I think many issues that were repeatedly mentioned have been summarized well. And I love that this thread has been going so much smoother than the badges thread. I am happy to hear everyone’s input, and civility! I would like to thank you for not being too hard on @Ken_O_Where! He doesn’t deserve to be a punching bag. He does a lot! As do @JoJo and @daath. Without our fearless leader none of us would be here! He has put so much into this site, and gives it to us for free! It’s incredible! And we don’t want to let his hard work become a site filled with porn and nonsense in every area, and that’s where it was largely headed!

As for @Lexie3’s comments, there is truly no favoritism going on. There are places that semi-reasonable adult content is allowed. The Saloon, and even more specifically the NSFW thread in the Saloon. Do you have access to that category? If not, I understand your issue. It has been set to require a specific trust level as you give out likes, participate and read. And I see you doing that all the time. Your “What do I like” thread was great! You are a good fit here! I think there may be just some miscommunication somewhere on all of this, and we can calmly discuss it. We all value your opinion.

The reviews that are more adult will be titled as such, so people are warned, they do not contain dirty pictures and the professional reviewers here have their “brand” to uphold. They are not just posting these reviews here, they are all over the web. Many professional reviewers need to find a style that works for them, @Steampugs and @VapeyMama have found that. But as I understand, for now, anyone who writes a review, professional or not, can use their own writing style as long as people are warned about any possible offensive content.

Thank you to everyone! :v:️:heart:️:smiley:


#217

Because if it’s posted in the saloon, it’s a totally different world lol…it’s no longer in the public domain. An 8 year old cannot enter the saloon. One mouse click away will make all the difference.


#218

I agree and while this was said im not sure it is exactly what was meant. But then again the kid next door is 9 years old and yesterday he greeted me with, “Hey Dickhead”. I aint saying it was right its what his dad calls me, yes i laughed my ass off, but kids arent stupid, they see and know more than we think so lets get a bit of a clarification on that.


#219

I think some of us tend to stay out of discussions like this because of the conflict of views that arise. I have gone into a thread about coils, or something that piqued my interest, and further down the line it starts veering off into something about fingers going places and whatnot (no, I’m not going to repeat it) and my instinct is ‘well geez’ and I move on to a different topic. We have to accept that some people are going to be offended by it, while others may not care at all. I don’t think caring or not caring is the ultimate point here. If it were me, I would just want everyone to make the forums as welcoming and comfortable as possible, for every person here, and keep certain content in the appropriate places.


#220

An 8yr old can’t enter a vape shop either (where I’m at, OR) on the Web. Why should a vaping website be any different.


#221

Sorry, I think you missed my sarcastic remark. A little hard to convey over the internet.


#222

Ah. My bad then.
I think I follow :wink:


#223

im not sure if toning down some of the things that are said will ruin ELR , actually i know it wont , i do know for a fact that some people that helped build this forum and that are highly respected have left or dont come here often bc of the amount of BS and thats a shame , know one is saying you cant curse or have fun just asking to lower the level of noise that has gotten off track in some peoples opinion , be respectful thats all …


#224

I definitely meant images - Text they’d have to actually read :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: