A PUBLIC and Civil Discussion on the Rules

General The Pub
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I tried to keep it to just the one topic but of course they cross over. This was to be my next moment of self inflicted pain but you say it perfectly, jmak. We are here to help new mixers, keep the ego in check when trying to help someone and if you are going to help someone then do so. A bunch of quick links probably arent the best way.

PS. Is it me? I know i have done this in chat but i have followed some of the folks back to help out in PMs. But more times than not i dont. This is a good reminder to all of us that we were intimidated too when we first started.

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When I first started mixing I always came here to read all the great advice that had been posted to help in my journey of becoming a better mixer. The recipe & calculator site is still my go to tool and I feel it always will be. I had never been a active member on any forum. I figured I would give it a try and started becoming more active on the forum. What I found is a great group of people who loved mixing, loved helping others become better mixers, and cared for one another beyond just mixing. Members showing help to other members monetarily or with words to show support. This is what drew me in. I did not feel as intimidatied trying to become a part of the community as I did with other DIY groups. A lot of other large mixing circles that I found were clicky and full of unnecessary childish drama. ELR had a more humble feeling where everyone was just helping everyone and having a good time. I felt I could ask questions about mixing without fear of being thought of as stupid, and felt I could voice an opinion without being dismissed as a noob who doesn’t know anything. I still feel that way. I have though, seen simple questions or opinions turn into huge pissing matches between people. That I could live without and could be taken care of thru PM between the said people. Debate is one thing, but when something turns into a out right argument it can be a turn off IMO. Topics being derailed never made me mad, but it was a distraction from what I was looking for. I think that change is nice. “Adult” posts, topics , or reviews never bother me. That being said I don’t get offended easily, but the world we live in now is far from my level of tolerance. IMO the restrictions on such content will make the forum more appealing to a larger group and will give the forum a more professional look and feel. The other side of that coin will make the forum less playful and edgy for some. There should be a place for that. Those who do not want to see or be a part of that, just stay away from that place. The fact that Admins even care to hear what members think about change speaks volumes to me. Other group admins just do and if you voice an opinion or don’t like it. You are “politely” told to piss off and then proceed to drag you through the mud and lay you on a bed of nails. As the group grows changes are going to be inevitable. The difficulty is how to include those who vape naked dipped in butter watching porn and those who vape wearing a business suit flying in a private jet listening to NPR. I do not envy the Admins or the MODs who will oversee and regulate this. Hopefully we can all find some common ground and get back to focusing on how to create that perfect blue raspberry, finding a awesome cherry flavor, how to get that real sour flavor, great recipes without steeping, helping new mixers become great mixers, and helping each other.

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Id just like to say that i am glad you joined us and felt at ease in doing so. It feels good to hear such a thing because so many of us love to help other people.

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Hey man. I am just one guy with his own opinion. Just wanted to share my experience.

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Id like to address this for a quick moment. Im married and have a life, in fact i have a wife who needed to go to the doctor with an ear infection today. Every single spare moment was spent right in front of this nerd box dealing with the issues our community is having problems with. (She said it would be ok). I dont get paid, none of us do. I do this because i genuinely care about not just this place but the people here too.

And it isnt just this thread, it still spilled over into PMs despite asking it not happen tonight. And yet im here. Im not sure what more that i can do to show people i am taking everyone seriously. Yet ive been called some crappy stuff over the last few days, that just isnt right…

Im not looking for apologies nor sympathy, i just want people to understand that we do this because we love this community.

Im going to say one last thing here, yeah right… Thank you from the bottom of my heart, @JoJo and @daath. I dont know how you guys juggled all of this and your normal lives but i am really thankful that you did because we are still here. Ill do my best and when that aint good enough ill do the best of somebody else.

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Never doubted that for a second. I’m grateful for the work you moderators do, and sorry for the abuse you have gotten and will inevitably get in the future. Just know that you all are far more appreciated than not.

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@daath
I know what I’ve quoted was the point of origin, and then shortly after (the post Ken summed up) you basically left out the part about the image…

But Lars I BEG YOU to reconsider this particular age reference/aspect, as IMO it’s in direct contravention to everything else, that has basically been agreed to by the majority.

For instance:

Innuendo, adult humor, and other subject matter notwithstanding.

If everything has to be acceptable in front of an 8 year old, then the majority of subject matter in ELR is unacceptable IMO. Because they damned sure shouldn’t be discussing smoking, tobacco use, drugs, sex, or much outside of Barney, and “Hi, my name’s xxxxxx, what’s yours?! Where do you go to school? What music do you like?” at that age.

Regardless, my point being, because you’ve said it, it’s “rightfully” being regarded as “what goes”, by those you put in place. I just want to allow an opportunity for clarification. Either from you, or by us (in our understanding).

If things get relegated down to “what’s acceptable for an 8 year old” , that would genuinely blow my mind.

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I am going to add my thoughts here and now. The summary Ken has listed as a temporary guideline until anything is official, is what I feel, to be an excellent compromise. It still keeps ELR the place we love, but prevents the stuff that has gotten out of hand.

When I was asked to be a moderator, my initial feeling was “Anything for ELR!”. However, I had conflicting views with what seemed to be some of the new rule enforcement. I am not easily offended, I find innuendos, tongue-in-cheek references, and adult humor entertaining. But, only in the places where they belong, without going overboard in vaping related threads. I think that @CallMeTut, @VapeyMama, @SthrnMixer @Nappen @Cutlass92 and @Molly_Mcghee are people who have seen me post things where it’s allowed, or heard me in voice chat being myself. (These are people who just come to the top of my mind as “not easily offended”). Other people may find offensive, if I have offended you, I apologize. I try to keep any adult content in the Saloon, PMs and Discord, but sometimes there have been slip-ups in public conversation, just in writing. We all slip-up.

I had to decide which was more important to me, my internet home and the people I met here, who have become real friends…but we’ve never even met. Or, agree to some type of changes to prevent this spiraling completely out of control. I put aside my personal feelings about mature content to make this the place similar to how it was when I first joined. I realized so much had changed and gotten out of hand, I didn’t realize how big of an issue it was for so many of the members! I was saddened to hear that people felt unwelcome and afraid to post because of lewd, or overwhelming numbers of derailing posts in common vaping topic threads. I was sad that wonderful members I look up to stopped being active. And I want more than anything to fix that by enforcing the rules, but still having fun.

I am pleasantly surprised that this seems to not be nearly as big of a change as I thought it would be! I think many issues that were repeatedly mentioned have been summarized well. And I love that this thread has been going so much smoother than the badges thread. I am happy to hear everyone’s input, and civility! I would like to thank you for not being too hard on @Ken_O_Where! He doesn’t deserve to be a punching bag. He does a lot! As do @JoJo and @daath. Without our fearless leader none of us would be here! He has put so much into this site, and gives it to us for free! It’s incredible! And we don’t want to let his hard work become a site filled with porn and nonsense in every area, and that’s where it was largely headed!

As for @Lexie3’s comments, there is truly no favoritism going on. There are places that semi-reasonable adult content is allowed. The Saloon, and even more specifically the NSFW thread in the Saloon. Do you have access to that category? If not, I understand your issue. It has been set to require a specific trust level as you give out likes, participate and read. And I see you doing that all the time. Your “What do I like” thread was great! You are a good fit here! I think there may be just some miscommunication somewhere on all of this, and we can calmly discuss it. We all value your opinion.

The reviews that are more adult will be titled as such, so people are warned, they do not contain dirty pictures and the professional reviewers here have their “brand” to uphold. They are not just posting these reviews here, they are all over the web. Many professional reviewers need to find a style that works for them, @Steampugs and @VapeyMama have found that. But as I understand, for now, anyone who writes a review, professional or not, can use their own writing style as long as people are warned about any possible offensive content.

Thank you to everyone! :v:️:heart:️:smiley:

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Because if it’s posted in the saloon, it’s a totally different world lol…it’s no longer in the public domain. An 8 year old cannot enter the saloon. One mouse click away will make all the difference.

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I agree and while this was said im not sure it is exactly what was meant. But then again the kid next door is 9 years old and yesterday he greeted me with, “Hey Dickhead”. I aint saying it was right its what his dad calls me, yes i laughed my ass off, but kids arent stupid, they see and know more than we think so lets get a bit of a clarification on that.

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I think some of us tend to stay out of discussions like this because of the conflict of views that arise. I have gone into a thread about coils, or something that piqued my interest, and further down the line it starts veering off into something about fingers going places and whatnot (no, I’m not going to repeat it) and my instinct is ‘well geez’ and I move on to a different topic. We have to accept that some people are going to be offended by it, while others may not care at all. I don’t think caring or not caring is the ultimate point here. If it were me, I would just want everyone to make the forums as welcoming and comfortable as possible, for every person here, and keep certain content in the appropriate places.

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An 8yr old can’t enter a vape shop either (where I’m at, OR) on the Web. Why should a vaping website be any different.

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Sorry, I think you missed my sarcastic remark. A little hard to convey over the internet.

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Ah. My bad then.
I think I follow :wink:

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im not sure if toning down some of the things that are said will ruin ELR , actually i know it wont , i do know for a fact that some people that helped build this forum and that are highly respected have left or dont come here often bc of the amount of BS and thats a shame , know one is saying you cant curse or have fun just asking to lower the level of noise that has gotten off track in some peoples opinion , be respectful thats all …

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I definitely meant images - Text they’d have to actually read :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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@JoJo
We need a :whew: quick reply icon! Lol
(or one period, so it seems! :wink: grins)

The old smiley wiping the sweat from the forehead…

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My thoughts aren’t going to be appreciated nor popular, but they are true for me.

Rewind 18 months ago, we all bragged about how nice the forum is and how we are all like family, and how we all respected each other and what each of us had to offer. We all had fun, talked how we wanted, used adult humor and it was great. We all loved our unique home, none of us felt censored, or like we were being treated like children.

Current day, we are all divided. A lot of us have stopped visiting the forums or interacting. We aren’t seeing anywhere near the same amount of new mixers showing up anymore, or at least interacting. Most of us are angry or resentful defensive.

What happened in that 18 months? Some people thought an adult thread in the pubs would be fun. And it was, for some. Then it continually devolved into inappropriate and offensive content. And when anyone mentioned it bothered them, they defended it. They said it’s in separate thread, don’t visit it if you are offended. But most of us already were not visiting it. Then the participants forgot what thread they were on, or didn’t care and the offensive banter and content overflowed all over the other threads. There became no way to distance yourself, and who knows how many new mixers never even said a word before leaving again.

We all handled it wrong. Everyone wasn’t being honest and saying things as they happened. We all just ignored it so it continued. Now it has gotten way out of control and people are offended and defensive because they are being called out on their behavior.

Yes, it was always wrong and against forum rules. Yes, the mods should have stopped it before it became an issue, and enforced the rules from the start. Yes, us users should have complained and or talked with the people we had problems with. But we all fucked up. It has gotten to the point there is no choice but to deal with it.

The rules have always been there. They should always have been enforced, but weren’t. Everyone has now been put on blast that starting now, that has changed and rules will be enforced.

No there shouldn’t be an adult thread allowed in the saloon and marked mature. That opportunity was already given, and people have already shown they are unable to manage that content and keep it where it belongs.

At the center of this entire fiasco is the adult thread with sexual content that has derailed a lot of non-adult threads. This is an adult mixing forum where we all can come together and share our hobbies and knowledge with like minded people. While acting like adults. Not pouting and whining because the xrated content has been banned from an ejuice mixing forum …oh, the horror.

If we wanted a porn forum, there are plenty out there to choose from, I wouldn’t visit a mixing forum.

Sorry for everyone that is butt hurt…but if you are feeling defensive while reading this, it might be time to take a step back and look at YOUR behavior.

The goal and commitment should be in returning this forum into the wonderful and unique place it used to be. If you feel like you can’t enjoy being here without an xrated section, then maybe you are in the wrong place.

To be honest, I have enjoyed being on Reddit more for the last few months than here…and that is really sad because I’ve never liked it there. But I have disliked it less than this forum that used to be my home.

So so sad this is where we all are :cry:

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Lady Mormont, i mean, Lady Rose speaks harshly, and truly. A big part of the blame lies on my shoulders for accepting a position and then not being able to fulfill it. I cannot promise a return to what once was but i can promise that i will do my best to help foster better relations between the folks here.

We just need a little trust, patience and help. It is a big hole we need to climb out of and not everything is going to work. As long as we keep learning at each step, i think everything will be fine.

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It’s not just you. It’s all of us. We are all to blame. I’m willing to be part of the solution just like you.

Anyone else?

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