Understood and agreed. A grand total of two people have been banned since I started as a moderator. More than those two probably should have been, or at least given official warnings. I’ve given one official warning and it was to a Vendor for “spamming” by posting multiple threads…the one rule that has seemed to be solid this entire time. LoL.
My resistance has come from, as you said, a lack of enforcement. Without real rules, there aren’t any repeat offenders. There aren’t any offenders at all. Just people some people find more obnoxious than others. Were I to ban someone for being annoying to someone else, our forum would be empty. Now that rules are being solidified, I can point to one and say, “You’re breaking this rule, you need to stop or these will be the consequences.”
Perfectly put, and exactly what I meant. @daath wouldn’t have elevated each of you if he suspected you would arbitrarily ban people just because they were annoying. He trusts you to do what is right, and the community trusts you as well.
These last few days- with the threads that now clearly define not only the rules, but that they will be enforced, along with inflating the staff roster- have now positioned ELR to right the ship, stabilize, and get all this behind us and grow forward.
I think it is awesome that we at least get a say in how things will progress in the future (regardless of the outcome). Most forums will just inform the people that the rules have been changed**.**
Personally I would say no to that. The title of her reviews says it all and gives people ample warning of content so I don’t think her reviews should be put away in a special naughty corner.
I’ve gotten a headache from all of this and will now
I think the same thing, splitting anyones reviews into a sub group wouldnt do anyone any favours, at worst a PG rating could be added to the title but seeing as they really arent obscene I don’t even think that is necessary, there’s a huge difference between VM’s reviews and what has been considered the real problem on ELR.
Hello!
I’ve been reading about a third of this thread so far. I’ve tried to ignore it and let the adults sort it out but here’s my opinion anyway.
First of all, derailing threads can be annoying but I’ve never seen anybody complain or a thread opener to say “back to topic, please”.
Next thing is, there are plenty of vape forums with all kinds of different “cultures”. I think the people who have found ELR and made it their home don’t really seem to be having a problem either.
Censoring a forum because “the children could see things they shouldn’t” is very dangerous in my opinion. Children can’t get an internet connection in their names so everything they can see has been given to them by their parents/guardians. I know this is not very popular with parents but hey, just my opinion, right? Why should a medium be child proved which is legally not available for minors in the first place? Do we have to build child prove cars because it could be dangerous if a child drives?
My suggestion for this forum: Use the pub / saloon a bit more for chit chat and get a rating system for the vape related topics so people can rate a thread. If too many people mark it as “off topic” or “worthless/ not helping the original poster’s problem” then nobody would have to read all this off topic nonsense. Perhaps badly rated threads could be excluded from particular search terms.
If it could be rated as “valuable info which helped me answer my questions” the problem would at least be limited to a level where nobody gets the urge to start a discussion about forum culture all together.
Moderators could split threads if necessary, move the rubbish part to that corner of the forum where nobody would look for real answers anyway.
I stand by what I said earlier, I don’t have a dog in this fight and so I’m not saying this with any kind of judgement whatsoever. If I’m way off base in any of this, feel free to correct me. We all know what happens when you make assumptions and I’m gonna do more of that than I probably should in hopes of simplifying and clarifying what I’m hearing is being said.
Pugs, I think you saying this is having the opposite effect of what you’re intending. Which is, I’m assuming, to defend @VapeyMama and her ability to freely post her reviews here. And rightly so, you are her friend and she’s a member of the Steampugs team. But I think you’re actually reinforcing the idea that it’s favoritism to allow them to be posted freely because you’re minimizing the issue people are saying they have with them.
VapeyMama does use some phrases that paint graphic mental images for anyone who gets the double entendre. It’s her thing, it’s what people like, and it’s what they’re expecting from her reviews. That’s not what is being debated here. I think what is really being debated in regards to the reviews is volume, intention, and location.
The question is not “Are her reviews bad?” The answer to that is wildly subjective and it isn’t really the issue at hand. Some might say “They’re totally nasty, but that’s why I love them and they should stay.” While others might think “They’re really quite tame and I have no problem with them, but they should be removed because it’s not fair.” The issue with the reviews is should they be removed, should they be sin binned, should they be allowed to be posted in public but tagged with some sort of warning, or should they be allowed to remain as-is without issue?
Some say it’s unfair and shows favoritism that she’s able to post a review in public that contains similar phrases to what is said in threads that have been sin binned or removed. Some say that her reviews are fine, but they should be tagged so people know right away and can avoid them if they want. Some say that they already do say “Naughty Reviews” on them and so people have been fairly warned and can walk away if they don’t want that.
The biggest difference I’m seeing repeated, and what I see as the heart of this entire issue, is does the fact that the reviews give the viewer a choice at the onset, while the thread derails are sudden, unexpected, and more lengthy mean there’s a double standard or does it make a genuine difference in how the two should be treated? And either way, what should be done about it?
What’s fair here? And I’m not answering that question, you guys are.
Not aimed solely at you Bad_Influence, just want to point out one more time (and likely many times after this) there is a rating system—flags and likes. One of the flags is “Off topic” and another is “inappropriate.” If a post is flagged 3 times, it’s automatically hidden and along with alerting a moderator, the person is sent a message. If posts in a topic are a flagged 12 times from 5 different people, the topic is automatically closed so staff can intervene. If a new user is flagged enough times by enough different people, they’re automatically silenced until a staff member reviews the situation. To avoid abuse of the flags, users are limited to 20 flags a day. In addition to affecting a user’s reputation in regards to user levels, likes are used in calculating a post’s position in searches, summaries, and “top” topics.
Im sharing your thoughts, i have 3 grand kids that just cant leave my screen, often when im reading on elr, never happen to me that i got an image out of the safety range, im young on this place but the way it is taking care of shows the quality’s of the place! As for derailling i have seen a few an what you are suggesting is pretty nice way to vote strait up as in or out of topic… i did saw peoples trying to get it back on tracks whit little effects, again a remarquable tendancy of this place is the opend mind & good will, and for what it’s worth im going to stick to those principles…
I’d like to touch on just a few things that have been brought up here-
1- Thread derailment is an issue. Recently there was a thread started about peoples favorite MF concentrates. Things started out fine but things went off the tracks and the OP did ask people to get back on track but he was generally ignored. Sometimes threads will get started, good conversation is initiated, but things get so out of whack that the end result had nothing to do with the OP.
2- Today being my one year on ELR, I remember having started at other forums and no matter what question I asked, I got the “check this thread” or “use the search bar. That’s already been covered.”, etc. Those responses always made me feel like an ass and quickly I left those sights. ELR was completely different. I could ask a question and get an answer while I was still trying to figure out how to navigate the site. I think with new people coming here, redirecting them to some old thread is a bad way to get someone started here and will cause growth to slow and/or stop, which would ultimately lead to the death of this site.
As far as “who’s gonna save the children”, I don’t know how to feel about that one. I don’t want my children coming behind me and seeing something that they shouldn’t. However, I also have no problem with throwing an f-bomb out in the right context. This is an adult sight that should have a place for adult things, but probably should be kept in the Saloon.
As far as @Steampugs and @VapeyMama reviews, please, I hear worse things in Disney movies.
I’m quoting myself here…LoL. One more thing about the flags. From this point forward, if I catch someone publicly bashing another member about flagging a post, it will be dealt with, and likely severely. That is one of the reasons why this great system has been abandoned. People are scared to flag posts because they don’t want to be seen as party poopers or tattle tales. So instead people generally just duke it out in public or leave. If your post gets flagged it is an invitation to reflect on what you said and not an invitation to run the flagger into the ground. If you’re really upset about your post being flagged, politely ask the person, preferably in a PM, why they felt the need to flag your post or ask a staff member to help.
I want to point out to those that push for the “what’s wrong with fun? I want to make this a fun place. Derailing threads with pointless off topic banter is fun, so let’s all relax and have fun or we will loose our beautiful place blaa…blaa…”
There is an enormous downside to the “derailing mindset”. I am a member that posts and corresponds with folks here that are interested in the same topic material I am interested in. We discuss many interesting and in some cases highly technical topics i.e.solvent NET extraction technology., perfume and aroma chemistry, pharmacological and safety consequences of WTA etc. etc.
ALL of that interaction is done in PM. We exchange a tremendous amount of very interesting technical information on these PM threads.
Would that content of those PMs be of interest and value to others here in ELR? Most certainly yes it would.
Would we consider cross posting or starting an open thread with that PM content? Most certainly NOT !
The reason we don’t post PM content publicly? We don’t want what is highly topic specific discussions derailed,.
So the bottom, line for those of you to consider that want this to be a “fun” place, is that there is a cost to dropping to the lowest common denominator. That cost is that you and your fellow members here are not seeing a lot of interesting and valuable thread topics because they never get posted in the first place. The folks that could post those high value content threads choose not to in the face a potential barrage of noise. What you call “fun” is just noise that drowns out real content.
If the software can be modified to support a “serious” button where the OP can be given the software power to delete off topic noise that might appear in the thread that he/she starts, then I will be all for posting some of our PM topics as an experiment to see if this creates an un-disturbed “safe zone” for those that want to be left alone to discussions that are 100% on-topic.
I think a “serious” button is a WIN / WIN. The “fun makers” can go play where they are invited, and, in turn, the more serious folks can get on with what they want to do
I have been sitting here reading this thread, and got to thinking how this site has changed my life. I reed that here quite often, but in my case it would not be for the reason you might think. I have added a post to the introduce yourself thread to not derail this thread.
I must say though I am not a vocal member I am an active member, and it saddens me to see so much angst here is at this time. Things have most defiantly changed over the past few years, some for the better some for the worse. I surely hope we all can get to the point where we can all co-exist and keep breathing life into this forum.
I’d really like to hear peoples thoughts on this. Obviously I don’t want to have to remove my reviews from this forum. And to be completely honest I would hate for them to have to be tucked away in the saloon away from the rest of the reviews. I’ve had great feedback that has led me to believe that people enjoy reading them, and really nothing bad has been said to me about them (other than when @SmilingOgre told me that he wanted to throw up a little bit after one of the intros… ). But it’s obvious that there are at least a few people who have a problem with them for whatever reason, and I’d like to know what the community as whole feels would be the best solution moving forward.
I DON’T want anyone to look at me like I’m being given special treatment. I DON’T WANT special treatment. I DO want to hear opinions and suggestions on how to move forward so that people are happy. I really like when people are happy.
Not quite what i had in mind. It should be something everybody can see at a glance before opening the thread itself like a traffic light or a percentage.
The likes are not so helpful either because a) they can’t be seen before opening the thread and b) (please don’t tar and feather me for saying this) some people can write whatever they like and still get lots of likes, no matter if it was on or off topic.
Speaks to the whole ‘buyer beware’ thing. This is a vaping forum for adults (since yeah, vaping is for adults too). Anyone who browses here should use their own diligence and discretion when coming here. Some things are adult in nature without being rule violations, and that is simply ‘the way it is’.
Reviews are everywhere. Everywhere. 99% of them are boring and uninteresting. And 99% of them, I wouldn’t bother to watch because they are so clinical. But reviews such as yours and Pug’s are captivating and entertaining. And they are for products I may not even have an interest in. But I read them because they are entertaining.
I can get smut and garbage at any site. ESPN, NBC, just about anywhere. The internet itself is rife with 18+ things, even at family sites. Everyone’s responsibility to surf, anywhere, at your own risk. Reviews stay here unchanged, as far as I’m concerned.
I did not know of your reviews before they were mentioned here but my take would be that they are perfectly fine.
Self contained, clearly defined style. I must say I rather enjoyed the Taylor Swift parody image in the one I checked out as a result. I will pass on your eye bleach offer though.
Do I find it high absolute informational value, probably not. But this is because I don’t care about equipment that much. As they are perfectly non disruptive and the format is really quite good, I think they are quite good for their intended dual purpose. As a result, I feel they have a place here.
). But it’s obvious that there are at least a few people who have a problem with them for whatever reason, and I’d like to know what the community as whole feels would be the best solution moving forward.
in the one I checked out as a result. I will pass on your eye bleach offer though.