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Flavor muting after 2-4 weeks


#1

Ive been making my own juice for about 2 or 3 months now. And ive gotten pretty good at making my own recipes. They all are great shake and vapes or good after steeping 1-7 daya. But after 2-4 weeks the flavor always seems to fade out… I dont know if it boils down to just simply fine tuning my recipes, my pg/vg solution (i start with 80/20), or if there is some addative i can use for preseration. I really dont know at this point and its frustrating. I use mostly Tfa flavors. For an easy example the unicorn blood/mothers milk clone recipes going around. I use: Tfa strawberry(ripe)@10% Tfa cheese cake (graham crust)@1.5% Tfa Bav. Cream@3% Tfa Sweet cream@3% Tfa Van. Custard@2%. This recipe is great at first. Shake and vape all day. But after about 2-3 weeks the strawberry is non existent and overal flavor is muted… I have this issue with other recipes as well


What's your preferred pg/vg ratio
#2

As a quick guess it may be that your palette becomes accustomed to the juice so you lose the taste. Do you switch up with different juices that do not contain the same ingredients and they also taste muted? I find that if I vape the same flavors all day I’ll find that I also lose the original taste.


#3

Creams, custards, and cheesecake all take time to steep. Your recipe is heavy in these ingredients when combined so they are overpowering the strawberry after a good steep. You basically have 2 choices, One, adjust recipe to tone down creams/custard/cheesecake so you are accounting for steep which would most likely turn it into a NON Shake and Vape. or Two, make amounts that you know you can vape before the strawberry is overpowered.

Don’t see any of these in your recipe but just a mention for your future blending (should you need this info) do not use EM (Cotton Candy) for sweetening. EM will mute other flavors as it steeps. If you must sweeten use marshmallow. Avoid using Smooth, Vape Wizard (same thing). These will also mute flavors. They are actually meant to be used when you truly need to mute flavor. I’ll use them in small amounts in Tobaccos and Menthol blends mostly. Also just a mention TFA Malted Milk must be used in small amounts due to muting other flavors. No more than 3-4%. Hope this helps…


#4

Ive done an excensive amount of research when it comes to diy e juice and ive learned that as the negarive effects of em and cut it out of almost all of my recipes unless need to round off sharp notes like tfa pear on occasion. Which i still try to avoid and use tfa yogurt instead which seems to work appropriately and sweetens the recipe rather then mute after steeping. And ive also thought of tweaking my cream base as an option and am in the middle of waiting to see how the teeaked recipes steep. But ive also experienced this with a bunch of other recipes of mine, if not all. One in particular is: Banana cream @5% Dragonfruit @3% Strawberry(ripe) @7%. This recipe is clearly low in any sort of cream, yet i find the strawberry and overal flavor still is very very weak after a few weeks of steeping…


#5

That recipe is only different from Strawberry Milk by 2.5% on the Cheesecake.

Strawberry Milk 100ml : http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/128513/Strawberry+Milk+100ml

3% Bavarian Cream (TPA)
5% Cheesecake (Graham Crust) (TPA)
10% Strawberry (Ripe) (TPA)
3% Sweet Cream (TPA)
2% Vanilla Custard v2 (CAP)

Flavor total: 23%
Remember to rate it at: http://tjek.nu/r/11nd

I’ve not had it with the reduced CC/GC, but I can tell you that this is one of my absolute faves and if I vape it all day long, just like CallMeTut says I lose the taste some. But just like ringling says, the creams take time to develop. I never keep this around that long and it’s a shake and vape for me as well. I make it 100 ml at a time and it’s typically gone in a week which is a bit before the creams start to take over.

I HAD TO EDIT THIS BECAUSE I DIDN’T NOTICE AT FIRST THAT YOU’RE SHOWING TPA VAN CUSTARD VS CAP THAT I USE. I CANNOT SAY IF THAT MUTES THE FLAVOR OR TAKES OVER OTHER FLAVORS AS I DON’T USE IT IN THIS RECIPE


#6

Yea ive learned that the creams seem to begin to really come through after about a week of steeping. And for myself personally it is not an issue as far as getting e juice gone lol. I vape quite a bit. But since starting my diy venture ive gotten fairly good at producing my own tastey recipes and have been selling them to friends. Which in return has made this an issue for me. And id like to solve it. I dont want my friends to get juice from me thats awesome at first and then sucks in a few weeks. Especially because most of them think steeping longer means the juice becomes better. Which i have found to be the case with alot of premium juices. Yet with my juice it does not seem to be the case… i feel like im missing that “special” ingredient. Idk if they use preservatives or what but premium juice just seems to last soooo much longer…


#7

Now this I find odd. Truthfully I have no explanation with concrete evidence. Think about this though. Some flavor companies sweeten flavors that they offer. What if they sweetened with EM. We all know it mutes flavors over time. So I think we know what would happen to our mixes over time…


#8

There is a vast difference between what a lot of us do and what premium juice makers do. I’ll use myself as an example. DIY is both a hobby and way to not purchase premium liquids. So for my purposes, I want something that tastes great at time of mix (ATM) or within a few days. However, if I were to make liquids for retail my approach would be far different. First, I may smell a new recipe ATM, but I’m certainly not trying it. I’ll shelf it for probably 2-4 weeks before trying it. I’ll make notes and try again every couple of weeks for maybe 4-5 months, making notes all the way. If adjustments are necessary they will come within the first 30 days, not ATM, and not after 2 weeks. So the process would involve far more testing for longevity rather than what I’m after now…instant gratification or something close to it. And for that reason I can see why it could take 6 mos or more to develop a new recipe (if making multiple batches at the same time with slight variations) to achieve the desired result. I suspect this is at least close to the process the big makers use…and on that front I’m not really interested. The only juice I’ve made that lasted 6 month was ones that sucked and were never vaped.


#9

Ya know this remark I’m going to make is most likely way out in left field… but as many of ya know my remarks normally are anyway…
Is it possible that using plastic instead of glass may be muting the flavors? I wouldn’t think so since the concentrates I get come in plastic, but could/would this have any effect on the juice?


#10

As you know, I do blend for a living. I agree with you nearly 100% but I do differ with one of your thoughts. That being this statement…

This is a big mistake! It is a extremely good idea to try a little bit to at least assure yourself the mix is not just plain dreadful. Especially if using flavors you never mixed with before. If the mix is terrible to start with it’s not gonna improve enough for you to put on the shelf, so, you scrap it and move on without wasting the time on a bad recipe. You can make adjustments if possible rather than scrapping of course. Rule of thumb for me has been if it’s a good Shake and Vape, it’s only gonna get better with steep. This has worked out 95% of the time…


#11

Yes, this is why we have learned to ignore you…lol. Just kidding @CallMeTut

The answer to this is yes but we are talking usually a year minimum shelf life. I have learned by studying about Nicotine Storage that plastic will not keep out oxygen completely. Even in the freezer oxygen can be absorbed into the nicotine through the plastic. So, basically oxygen will slowly absorb into your ejuice and in time change your liquids which can include flavor fading…


#12

thx @ringling it’s something I’ve always wondered about… being ignored lol


#13

[quote=“ringling, post:10, topic:29595, full:true”]

As you know, I do blend for a living. I agree with you nearly 100% but I do differ with one of your thoughts. That being this statement…

This is a big mistake! It is a extremely good idea to try a little bit to at least assure yourself the mix is not just plain dreadful.[/quote]

This is what I love about the group here. We can have diversity of thought and even disagree, but respectful all the way!!

And on that note I will disagree to a point, although not entirely. I’m only referring to formulating new recipes. For all my mixes here with the exception of times I’m either too busy, lazy or distracted, I always try new blends ATM. It’s just what I do. But at the same time I know there are flavors that won’t come out until time has passed. So whether I taste ATM or wait 2 weeks, the fact is in my hypothetical I’m talking about making for retail sale and I would never mix a liquid on demand as a juice maker. It would only be available after what I determined to be proper steep time. Just like The Glen Livet doesn’t send out fresh casks of their single malt. So in 2 weeks when I tried something and it’s awful, likely it was awful 2 weeks ago…still the same, going in the trash or getting reworked.


#14

I have steeped mixes this long…

This is why I don’t test vape for a month. Shake and vape hardly ever “IMO” show your real mix. Start with adapted high rated time tested mixes. Get your feet wet and learn your flavors. The only thing I learned in 3 months was how to make a bad mixes.

[quote=“jasen22, post:1, topic:29595”]
I use mostly Tfa flavors.
[/quote] Some are good and some are not. This is why it take time to learn flavors and how they interact in mixes. This is nothing like cooking. Sometimes what’s on the label is not what’s in the bottle.


#15

My actual routine? Blend up a new creation (actually usually 4 or 5). Steep it overnight most times. Pack up the new stuff and head over to a Vape Shop my buddy works at. We then get out the Magma (Now sporting a SS Coil) to test the juices We rewick with each flavor. My Buddy, Myself, and anyone else that happens to be there gets to try the mixes. If the those mixes are considered anything less then 5 stars out of 5, I revamp the recipe (UNLESS DREADFUL, this is rare). If it passes the first test then it will sit for awhile and I’ll try it later on to be sure there were no changes for the worst. If all is good and feel it’s different enough from all my other releases then I will put it on the shelf. The point I’m at now is always trying to make something different from those I have already released. This does become more and more difficult as you release more and more flavors…


#16

See this is my goal. I just recently got a label and have been working on getting my juice on the shelf in one particular vape shop. Ive showed them probably 10 of my recipes and they love 7 or 8. But now that i have my label im getting self concious about my juice… i dont want to get my foot in the door and fill a self with product that wont be good in a couple weeks…


#17

Understandable !!! Problem is steeping and changes in taste are the nature of the beast when it comes to blending Ejuice. In the case of retail or wholesale sales of Ejuice the small time vendors have a hard time steeping juice for months to see these changes. What this means is you should be retesting after a month even if that ejuice has been released. You can RECALL if need be since you are talking most likely a small amount. Keep in mind it is always best to get help with tasting. The more the merrier. One’s taste buds can get burnt out and you may think a juice that tastes perfectly fine suddenly tastes bad. Don’t rely on only your opinion. This is a bad mistake…

If you ever get big and supply multiple shops, it would be best to have only one shop that gets to be the test market for new blends. This way you keep any recalls to the absolute minimum…

Also, as @Pro_Vapes mentioned, TFA is not always the better flavors. I use a number of TFA flavors but they are only about 30% of my stash. I use a lot of FW and a few other flavors from some other oddball companies. I go where needed to get the flavor I want…


#18

And that’s why your’re in the best place on the web to learn all you need to know about making e-liquid. Just keep in mind your limited experience and don’t set the bar too high for yourself. I learn loads from the people here but nothing replaces experience.


#19

Yea i hear ya man. I wish i was further along being that i see oppurtunity. But i only know so much… Which is why i really appreciate the advice from all of u guys. Ive been reading up a lot on this stuff in this forum as well as some others and its helped so much. I also experiment a lot which has taught me quite a bit. But it looks like theres quite a bit more experimenting to be done!


#20

Sorry had to revive the topic…
had exactly the same problem with you and is also using TFA…
even with out EM my juice went flat after 2-4 weeks.
just wondering whether if you solved the problem.
if you had, I hope you don’t mind to share it… or perhaps give us a hint.
was it some additional substance? or just the matter of tweaking the % of the flavoring.

thank you in advance.